Richard M. Stallman resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#191

Post by malandrew » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:11 AM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #49

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

I too, am a fan of Stallman's accomplishments and I am sad that debate on this topic essentially can't happen. That said, I think Stallman's position really is fundamentally wrong and problematic. Legally, sex with underaged people is rape regardless of consent. Morally, that stance really is justified in the most common circumstance - when the non-underaged person has more power and experience than the underaged per…

> a situation where simple "free choice" is made a mockery of.

I'm not so sure. "Free choice" today as defined by those on the left is "free to make choices independent of constraints imposed by personal capacity or personal resources", whereas it has historically been interpreted as "free to make choices independent of constraints imposed by other humans".

The problem with the former definition of free choice is that it requires encroaching on the latter definition of free choice.

If you have two people that are equally poor, both are equal in terms of having free choice under both definitions.

If one of those people becomes wealthy, they continue to be equal under the latter definition of free choice, but are unequal under the former definition even though nothing has changed in the circumstances of the one that became neither richer nor poorer than he was previously.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#192

Post by bythckr » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:12 AM UTC

What happened? This seems sudden.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#193

Post by zonidjan » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:13 AM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

> he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions.

> The announcement of the Friday event does an injustice to Marvin Minsky: “deceased AI ‘pioneer’ Marvin Minsky (who is accused of assaulting one of Epstein’s victims [2])” The injustice is in the word “assaulting”.

Saying that sexual assault isn't assault is scientific inquiry?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#194

Post by kube-system » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:13 AM UTC

Regardless of Stallman's opinions, whether perceived or actual (I couldn't care less about his non-tech commentary), his poor communication skills have long made him a subpar leader.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#195

Post by nikdaheratik » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

iamnothere wrote: post #43

RMS was defending Minsky, awkwardly. As someone who has a history of social awkwardness, he should be forgiven for this. He's been a good steward of the FSF, which has doing important work in the service of free (read: non-backdoored) hardware lately. I know there are good people still at the FSF, but I can only hope they are as incorruptible and dogged as RMS. The way this attack came suddenly out of the depths make…

If it was just a one-off thing isolated from other recent events, you might be correct. But due to Epstein's association with MIT and his other history of controversial statements and actions with FSF, they couldn't just let him make an apology and hide out for awhile.

The fact that this is a more friendly forum than the general public, and yet the majority of people who are sticking up for him here seem to be anonymous conspiracy theorists and people who want to advocate lowering the age of consent, seems to be pretty damning in itself for his prospects.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#196

Post by Scene_Cast2 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #40

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

He’s being forced to resign from an advocacy organization for being a shithead who defends child rape. It sets the precedent that you can’t defend reprehensible acts and still be considered a community leader. We are all better off for it.

But I'm not so sure if we are better off.

That precedent creates a stigma when discussing such topics. Let's say that you don't quite understand a particular viewpoint (doesn't have to be this - another good topic is racism & discrimination). Where do you go to learn more about the topic? Especially when you're aspiring to be a leader, this stigma incentivizes holding on to half-baked ideas that you simply can't discuss with anyone. That, in turn, creates a culture of double-speak.

So, in other words, good first-order effects, but bad second-order effects.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#197

Post by ufo » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:15 AM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #123

hristov wrote: post #47

I think it is unfair to hound him over his latest statement about sexual assault. He is absolutely right that the term sexual assault includes actions that are so different that it can be used to unfairly destroy people's reputation. And if you are going to call someone a monster, it is better to more precisely define what type of sexual assault he did. I myself was sexually assaulted some time ago. I was in an ordin…

If he wrote that, he'd likely still have a job. But that's not what he wrote. He took it too far.

And more importantly, this latest controversy was not an isolated incident. It builds on a long history of questionable behaviour

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#198

Post by rezmason » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:15 AM UTC

typon wrote: post #126

This is actually the best outcome for the FSF. Unwittingly, the FSF might now need to find a leader who isn't a known weirdo/creep who's "genius" people merely tolerate. This might be the best news for FSF fans like me.

For as long as I've followed the free software movement, I've wanted them to find a new spokesperson.

Surely there's an ideal-driven programmer iconoclast out there who doesn't pick stuff off his feet in the middle of a Q&A and then eat it.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#199

Post by paxys » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:16 AM UTC

leftyted wrote: post #147

I never much liked Richard Stallman. But he's a freethinker, and freethinkers necessarily exist outside the mainstream. So, despite not liking him, I also don't like this turn of events. It does seem arbitrary to me that the same sexual encounter is classified as rape in Arizona and not rape in Virginia. I suppose we have to draw that line somewhere arbitrary. But I wonder if it was a mistake to classify what is call…

He can continue to be a freethinker all his life, which is his right. What isn't though, is having unconditional support from two powerful industry organizations. They can choose their own values, same as him.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#200

Post by jameslk » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:17 AM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

It's funny seeing all the Stallman apologists coming out of the woodwork trying to justify what he said and decry this as a form of censorship. As if having more people dumping their opinions on every subject is a good thing. Sometimes it really is better just to shut up. Otherwise if you're going to air out your thoughts on touchy subjects, be ready to find yourself up against others who disagree in a profound way. Now he can make his career in social political issues instead of technological ones.

"So much depends on your reputation. Guard it with your life."