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The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#191

Post by dsalso »

zackmorris wrote: post #130
landonxjames wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My digestive system got wrecked trying to be on a mostly vegetarian diet over several years after the housing bubble popped. The gist of it is that the lectins (and other defense mechanisms in the husks) of legumes and nightshades disrupt the mucus lining of the intestines, which leads to leaky gut and stool getting into the body cavity and blood (leaky gut), which may lead to autoimmune diseases like colitis and a…

Ya sorry, it's a relatively new concept: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319593.php My feeling is that it's similar to how allergies/cancer/etc often have 2 or more triggers that must coincide to set off the condition. So for example, maybe people who wouldn't typically have gluten sensitivity (a lectin), ended up with it because they distrupted their gut flora by eating, say, the glyphosate in oats (especi…

Yes, I think sometimes the reductionist approach misses a lot of context. Regarding your beans example of the pressure cooker, people in my family always let beans soak in water which is then discarded. I think this kind of tradition had a function --> for example, remove the excess lectins. Can glutamine be vegetarian sourced?

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#192

Post by SECProto »

p1necone wrote: post #155
notJim wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe with Impossible Foods, but I don't see anything about RNA here: > The vegan meat substitutes are made from mixtures of pea protein isolates, rice protein, mung bean protein, canola oil, coconut oil, and other ingredients like potato starch, apple extract, sunflower lecithin, and pomegranate powder with a range of vitamins and minerals. Beef products that "bleed" are achieved by using beet juice Just sounds like…

I've had a beyond meat burger, I'm curious to hear the opinion of others that have had one too because I thought it tasted terrible . The texture was nothing like real ground beef and neither was the flavour. It wasn't good different either - I'd much rather have a regular bean burger. I feel like it's all marketing and they're just riding the hype wave caused by other better products or peoples desire for one. (I as…

I found it tasted like a frozen burger - like the kind sold in 40 packs and sold at charity barbecues. The texture seems too smooth. And the aroma was unpleasant (as someone else commented). I too would prefer either a real meat burger, a black bean burger, or just some tofu (if you freeze it to drive out more moisture, you get a chewier texture - non traditional, but can give good texture.)

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#193

Post by robocat »

zackmorris wrote: post #130
landonxjames wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My digestive system got wrecked trying to be on a mostly vegetarian diet over several years after the housing bubble popped. The gist of it is that the lectins (and other defense mechanisms in the husks) of legumes and nightshades disrupt the mucus lining of the intestines, which leads to leaky gut and stool getting into the body cavity and blood (leaky gut), which may lead to autoimmune diseases like colitis and a…

Ya sorry, it's a relatively new concept: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319593.php My feeling is that it's similar to how allergies/cancer/etc often have 2 or more triggers that must coincide to set off the condition. So for example, maybe people who wouldn't typically have gluten sensitivity (a lectin), ended up with it because they distrupted their gut flora by eating, say, the glyphosate in oats (especi…

> ended up with it because they distrupted their gut flora by eating, say, the glyphosate in oats

This sounds wrong. Glyphosate targets an enzyme in plants. The residual levels in human food are extremely low, so why do you think those levels would affect our gut biome?

I found a relevant paper: "administered at up to fifty times the established European Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI = 0.5 mg/kg body weight) had very limited effects on bacterial community composition in Sprague Dawley rats" from paper titled "Glyphosate has limited short-term effects on commensal bacterial community composition in the gut environment due to sufficient aromatic amino acid levels": https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S026974911...

Can you refer to any papers that contradicts that?

Edit: I just read your first link on lectins: maybe Gundry has a point, but the crass commercialisation ("Dr. Gundry developed that are sold under the GundryMD brand", affiliate links to Amazon) of that article really detracts from it. It seems obvious to me problems with lectins could only affect a small percentage of people, given that the foods Gundry says to avoid are eaten commonly or staples in some populations for a long time. Note I very strongly agree that we should try a variety of different solutions to health issues (kinda scientific but not!), and I admire that you have found something that is helping you. I do dislike prosyletising of information without balance, and some of what you say is veering towards misinformation IMHO.

Edit 2: For completeness: some bacteria do have the enzyme affected by Glyphosate, which has been investigated to see if it affects bees via their gut biome. And the paper showed an effect on gut bacteria with 50x legal dosage if there were insufficient aromatic amino acid levels. The question is: does the maximum legal dosage affect the gut biome enough to be a problem? Given the crap our gut biome handles, and the fact it is a breeding ecology, I am sceptical.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#194

Post by rfrey »

soperj wrote: post #18
omarhaneef wrote: post #11

I think the part that rings clearly in my head is the ethical part. I really cannot believe we eat animals. I know other animals do it all the time -- and I don't hold it against tigers and lions -- but its still strange to me that we, humans, do it. If you don't feel that strong surprise, then I think the other arguments may or may not work for you. But if you have that sense that it is strange and perhaps off, then…

I feel the same way about vegetables. I know other animals do it all the time, but when you add them up all the plant deaths are horrific.

I believe you are being downvoted because this seems more like a 12 year old’s attempt to be clever than it does a genuine attempt to contribute to the conversation.

If you are in fact twelve... well, stop it anyway.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#195

Post by mythrwy »

moreranchplease wrote: post #107

Stop eating animals? No? Ok so you’re cool with paying for someone to torture and kill an animal for a meal you’ll forget in minutes. That’s Fucked up but surely you care about the environment and how animal agriculture is the single biggest thing you can do to preserve what we have left of this world. No? Wow so you’re incredibly selfish and and lack empathy. Impressive. I guess then without a doubt you care about y…

so..... lessranchesplease?

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#196

Post by henrysarabia »

phunctional wrote: post #136

Is nobody seriously going to talk about cellular agriculture/clean meat? Companies like Memphis Meats, JUST, Finless Foods, etc. creating actual beef/meat?

I haven't read or heard of these but they sound interesting. I'd like to hear what you have to say about them

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#197

Post by dsalso »

defterGoose wrote: post #173
seisvelas wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I live in Mexico City, where it is not unheard of for the government to outright cut off the city water supply for days to account for shortages. People's preferences haven't changed. Beef continues to be very popular, as do public fountains. The choice not to consume meat (at least here) is mostly associated with pretentious, upperclass people who like yoga and are keenly interested in social justice (there is e…

So what you're saying is that continuing your current beef consumption is a neutral activity, while trying to cut back due to environmental impact is simply virtue signalling? Maybe the people trying to cut back are ahead of the curve. Maybe those people realize that if the worst effects of climate change and population growth come to pass, that cutting back now could mean the impact on beef supply in the future is m…

Thank you for prolonging my enjoyment of meat then! I now feel like the celebrities promoting cutting back on greenhouse gas emissions while flying private jets all over the world. At least someone is getting to enjoy themselves.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#198

Post by el_benhameen »

p1necone wrote: post #155
notJim wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe with Impossible Foods, but I don't see anything about RNA here: > The vegan meat substitutes are made from mixtures of pea protein isolates, rice protein, mung bean protein, canola oil, coconut oil, and other ingredients like potato starch, apple extract, sunflower lecithin, and pomegranate powder with a range of vitamins and minerals. Beef products that "bleed" are achieved by using beet juice Just sounds like…

I've had a beyond meat burger, I'm curious to hear the opinion of others that have had one too because I thought it tasted terrible . The texture was nothing like real ground beef and neither was the flavour. It wasn't good different either - I'd much rather have a regular bean burger. I feel like it's all marketing and they're just riding the hype wave caused by other better products or peoples desire for one. (I as…

I've had both. I had the Beyond Burger at a burger/beer joint and it was legit good. But I was surprised and very satisfied with it, as was the buddy I was with who is also not a vegetarian.

I had the Impossible Burger at Burger King, and it's now my go-to for when I want a fast food burger. It won't fool you, but it's about equally satisfying and it makes me feel less bad about the environmental and ethical impacts of a beef burger.

I will say that I've mostly eliminated red meat from my diet due to ethical/environmental/health concerns, so convincing me to try and continue eating one of these is much easier than convincing a die-hard carnivore, or even a middle of the road meat eater.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#199

Post by soperj »

rfrey wrote: post #194
soperj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way about vegetables. I know other animals do it all the time, but when you add them up all the plant deaths are horrific.

I believe you are being downvoted because this seems more like a 12 year old’s attempt to be clever than it does a genuine attempt to contribute to the conversation. If you are in fact twelve... well, stop it anyway.

Thanks Rod, I wasn't asking why I was being down-voted though.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#200

Post by bobby358 »

Falling3 wrote: post #78
bobby358 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that demonstrates is that mammals can recognize each other’s suffering. It’s entirely possible that when a plant is killed, there is also suffering, but it’s so foreign to us we can’t recognize it.

Sure, it's _possible_. But we absolutely no evidence that it happens based on what we know (albeit very little) about the subject. And we have good reasons to believe it's not happening: plants lack the brain structures and processing power believed to be required, no evolutionary advantage, lack of motility. Philosophically, it fails as an Appeal to Ignorance. Practically, it fails for a few reasons. Many of the pla…

An appeal to ignorance requires to me make an assertion. Saying something is _possible_ is not an assertion.

I concur however, that if one has a genuine concern for plant suffering then only ethical course of action is suicide.

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