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You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

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Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#191

Post by SebastianKra »

fhood wrote: post #19

As an end user I approve of the walled garden. I don't mind the limitations on other forms of payment. I think it helps prevent fraud and insecure transactions, and I like the freedom and ease of use that comes with knowing that apps on the ios store went through a fairly substantial review process. As a developer (though it has been a few years since I wrote code for mobile) Apple's tools, documentation and librarie…

As an end user I _do_ mind the walled garden.

There is at least one App (ProTube) that I can't use just because some Company (Google) got Apple to kick it out of the AppStore.

I also can't download Torrents or use Emulators. There's no justified reason - Apple just doesn't want me to.

And there's nothing I can do, because the alternatives are far inferior (at least for my use cases).

I can only hope for regulation.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#192

Post by dwild »

nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

> None of them allow you to make 'A' rated games for example.

The sad difference is that we don't care much about 'A' rated game, but we do care about useless 30% surcharge and more trouble on how to pay.

If you do care about 'A' rated games, I will gladly push your campaign and not argue whether it's a legitimate concern or not.

> I doubt Walmart would be particularly happy if a sign said you could buy X device cheaper directly from the manufacturer.

I agree completely, which is why I wouldn't expect Apple to accept on the app store (the market) to let description or screenshot talk about how it can be cheaper somewhere else.

Outside of the app store though, on the apps themselves, they shouldn't have any control over what the app say over where you can or cannot buy something. They don't own the device, it's mine. they may own their app store, that's fine, they are hosting it, but they don't own the device.

> a developer implementing their own payment system will be an immediate delete for me

Same goes for me and I'm on Android. The difference is the liberty to make that choice.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#193

Post by banachtarski »

scarface74 wrote: post #121
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish game consoles were open, but I don't care as much because they're single purpose. A PS4 is not designed to be your primary computer. An iPhone, by contrast, will be many people's primary or even they're only computer. What does it mean for our society if a single company has control over what that computer can display? I see this issue as broader than just competition—I think it's analogous to free speech.

So the console isn’t a general purpose computer but the iPhone is? By whose definition?

You typical developer on iOS is targeting a broad spectrum of hardware (even within the iOS line, the software is able to run on various iphone skus dating back possibly 7-9 years).

Console? When I ship a PS4 build, it is THE PS4 BUILD. It has optimizations designed to maximize the memory buses that ship with the PS4 and the PS4 only.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#194

Post by Carpetsmoker »

reaperducer wrote: post #77
Carpetsmoker wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't allow me to buy anything on my iPhone, as I got my phone in New Zealand, have a British Revolut CC card and phone number, then was in the Netherlands for a while, and am now living in Ireland. I had to switch the region to Netherlands to install the (free) RyanAir app (why?!) which was rather annoying since then it started offering Dutch suggestions for stuff (which I don't want). I can't add my UK CC t…

I can't add my UK CC to my account though as it's not a Dutch one, so I switched to the UK region, and then it errors out with "your account is not valid for use in the UK store. You must switch to the Dutch store before purchasing". Why ...? I don't know. Because content licensed for a particular geographic region. I mix regions, too. It's not rocket surgery. You just have multiple iTunes accounts, which are as easy…

Nothing you said is easy; it's all a massive PITA and incredibly user-hostile. I do appreciate the advice, but I just want to do normal things without jumping through hoops. I don't even use iTunes; do I have an account? Don't know, and frankly don't care either (I've given up on it).

Here's how everything else works: I see a price for something, I decide I want it, I fill in my CC number, and I have it. No need to go to a physical store and juggle accounts and credit cards and whatnot.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#195

Post by dwild »

lancesells wrote: post #110
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

Besides video games you could add movie rentals and sales, tv show rental and sales, music sales, PPV events, book sales, Steam... While I do think it's high for recurring revenue every retailer is in that 30% range or higher.

> Besides video games you could add movie rentals and sales, tv show rental and sales, music sales, PPV events, book sales, Steam...

Can you be more specific? I know plenty of places to rent 'A' movie for example. I also know plenty of alternative to Steam on PC, yet none on iOS device.

If you talked about games on console that can't be 'A' rated. I would agree completely that it's wrong and I'm pretty sure that almost everybody would agree. We just don't care about not being to play 'A' game on console.

If you do care, believe me, I would gladly say that what you are doing is positive. I won't say, well what about X other place that doesn't allow something else.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#196

Post by dwild »

fhood wrote: post #19

As an end user I approve of the walled garden. I don't mind the limitations on other forms of payment. I think it helps prevent fraud and insecure transactions, and I like the freedom and ease of use that comes with knowing that apps on the ios store went through a fairly substantial review process. As a developer (though it has been a few years since I wrote code for mobile) Apple's tools, documentation and librarie…

> I think it helps prevent fraud and insecure transactions

I got an amazing service to offer you, it's a debit card with 30% fees that will prevent fraud and insecure transactions!

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#198

Post by CaptainMarvel »

briandear wrote: post #127
CaptainMarvel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m unhappy because Apple has prevented me from using my phone how I want to. I recognised Spotify’s published complaints against Apple 2-3 years before they spoke out. I vowed to never use or buy Apple Music, Apple Watch, HomePod, and even a new iPhone because Apple were degrading my experience with Spotify compared to their own services. They deliberately created an unfair playing field on their platform in order t…

> I’m unhappy because Apple has prevented me from using my phone how I want to. We’re you unaware of that before you bought your device? If you buy a vacuum cleaner and discovered it doesn’t toast bread, are you blaming the vacuum maker? You know what you get when you buy Apple, there are hardly surprises.

Well yes, I was surprised. I purchased my iPhone ~5 years ago, before they really got started selling services, and information about this issue was not really broadcast back then as far as I can remember.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#199

Post by dwild »

eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #11

Disagree. Every system has problems. Look at what happened with Zoom — unrestricted access to your entire user account on MacOS, for them to do whatever they want. Normal people should not have to even think about a virus or malware scanner on their system. I like where Apple is going and I like the iOS model. Most of all, I know that people like my parents will be better protected from malware and spyware and crypto…

> Look at what happened with Zoom — unrestricted access to your entire user account on MacOS, for them to do whatever they want.

Are you saying that if they were applying the same walled market as what they do with iOS, the Zoom issue wouldn't have happened? That seems doubtful to me.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#200

Post by CaptainMarvel »

scarface74 wrote: post #69
CaptainMarvel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m unhappy because Apple has prevented me from using my phone how I want to. I recognised Spotify’s published complaints against Apple 2-3 years before they spoke out. I vowed to never use or buy Apple Music, Apple Watch, HomePod, and even a new iPhone because Apple were degrading my experience with Spotify compared to their own services. They deliberately created an unfair playing field on their platform in order t…

Apple doesn’t take a cut of a Spotify subscription. Spotify hasn’t allowed in app subscriptions for years. Can I sideload music and integrate it with my Spotify library like I can with Apple Music? Can an artist get included in the Spotify library without giving them a 30% cut? Apple is introducing cellular streaming in WatchOS 5 and music intents with Siri in iOS 13. This problem is the same. How can Spotify compete…

I feel like you missed the point. The choices are: give Apple 30%, or do not even so much as hint to the users that they can subscribe on the website. Either option cripples the service compared to Apple’s service.
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