How is it like to be a dev in Iran • Hacker News Board

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#191

Post by stale2002 » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:19 AM UTC

knowThySelfx wrote: post #184

I do not know how others feel. But I feel resentment towards embargoes (and calling their poodle countries to follow suite) placed on other countries just because they don't tow your line. Going to Iran's backyard and threatening them and then cry when they retaliate (a pretext to start war)...its so...pathetic. In fact most of the 20th century wars were started using this kind of baiting.

> just because they don't tow your line.

Let's be specific what we are talking about here. We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people.

So, let's rephrase your original statement to instead say "just because they continue to fund militant groups that kill lots of people".

Rephrased that way, your original comment does not sounds so reasonable.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#192

Post by parsadotsh » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:20 AM UTC

nixgeek wrote: post #2

Seems like it could be dangerous just to blog about these activities if you live in Iran?

In Iran people openly talk of their disdain of the government, sometimes very publicly even. It's only when you become an active political activist that things might go awry.

The same can't be said of China; People here self-censor even in personal conversations.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#193

Post by throwaway-klsdj » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:21 AM UTC

grecy wrote: post #144

throwaway-klsdj wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point. To add a slightly different perspective, I work for a US company that routinely has to deal with cyber attacks by Iranian professionals, probably government sponsored. I think most people don't realize how incredibly serious this is, and how basically there is already a global war being fought. And the nations with the most freedom have the most to lose. Certainly most of the people in Iran are…

> And the nations with the most freedom have the most to lose. I'm genuinely curious - can you please expand on what exactly you mean by this?

- The nations with the most freedom also have complex, efficient industries and markets that provide high standards of living - These nations have complex governments designed to protect people from each other and from external threats - These nations are technologically advanced and highly reliant on things attached to networks - These nations have a lot more information freely available, and access to things

All this adds up to a much larger surface area. It's like we're in a stone throwing fight and one side is living in a glass house and the other side is in a mud hut. Losing a cyber war could destroy governments and economies in the West. Imagine no electricity everywhere, no water, no sewer, no planes or trains, no tv or internet. It would be an apocalypse. The same thing happening to Iran might be difficult, but mostly annoying. I'm not sure. In North Korea most people wouldn't even notice.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#194

Post by molteanu » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:23 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #191

knowThySelfx wrote: post #184

I do not know how others feel. But I feel resentment towards embargoes (and calling their poodle countries to follow suite) placed on other countries just because they don't tow your line. Going to Iran's backyard and threatening them and then cry when they retaliate (a pretext to start war)...its so...pathetic. In fact most of the 20th century wars were started using this kind of baiting.

> just because they don't tow your line. Let's be specific what we are talking about here. We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people. So, let's rephrase your original statement to instead say "just because they continue to fund militant groups that kill lots of people". Rephrased that way, your original comment does not sounds so reasonable.

> funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people

You're talking about US, right?

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#195

Post by thedevilslawyer » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:26 AM UTC

misingnoglic wrote: post #189

My heart breaks for these devs. I've been able to launch a successful development career specifically because I was born in the US (and my parents left Iran). If I was the same person in a different geographic area I'd be struggling under sanctions. Companies definitely need to push back on extra egregious legal teams who want to block services Iran, as it's mostly paranoia and not that the services actually fall und…

Isn't the point of sanctions to cause frustration by restrictions?

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#196

Post by yongjik » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:29 AM UTC

_ptgt wrote: post #188

yongjik wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the choice between a government that poses no threat to it but is illiberal and any possibility of a liberal government the US always opts to harm the illiberal government. This makes sense only if you define "liberal" as "aligned with the interests of Washington and/or American corporations". For god's sake, USA supported Saddam Hussein while he was gassing Kurdish civilians during the Iran-Iraq war. https:/…

"Supported" in the sense of "not letting being conquered completely by Iran." Who was carrying out its own mass executions of non-Muslims and implementing its own cultural revolution around that time. America definitely had some self-interest in protecting Iraq, but it's not like the alternative was clearly a better choice either.

> "Supported" in the sense of "not letting being conquered completely by Iran."

Iraq started the war.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#197

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:29 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #191

knowThySelfx wrote: post #184

I do not know how others feel. But I feel resentment towards embargoes (and calling their poodle countries to follow suite) placed on other countries just because they don't tow your line. Going to Iran's backyard and threatening them and then cry when they retaliate (a pretext to start war)...its so...pathetic. In fact most of the 20th century wars were started using this kind of baiting.

> just because they don't tow your line. Let's be specific what we are talking about here. We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people. So, let's rephrase your original statement to instead say "just because they continue to fund militant groups that kill lots of people". Rephrased that way, your original comment does not sounds so reasonable.

[deleted]

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#198

Post by A2017U1 » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:32 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #140

h0l0cube wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I work for a US company that routinely has to deal with cyber attacks by Iranian professionals, probably government sponsored. It's hard to posit a moral high-ground here, when basically every state is actively seeking to undermine the others' cyber security, including the US. Stuxnet is one of the most formidable state-sponsored cyber security exploits, and that was targeted at Iran, it seems easy justification to…

I don't think Stuxnet forfeits the moral high ground. It was narrowly focused on attacking a specific military project. It's exactly the kind of thing I want the CIA (or whatever) doing, especially if the alternative is sending bombs. State sponsored attempts to hack public network infrastructure fit into a totally different category. These are not the same.

Before stuxnet Iran had absolutely no cyber capabilities. In the years following it they have built some of the most formidable offensive teams on the planet.

There's plenty of literature on this. Whoever created stuxnet created another monster too.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#199

Post by A2017U1 » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:32 AM UTC

TACIXAT wrote: post #155

chewbaxxa wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m always baffled when people categorically claim that they know the source of their cyber attacks. It’s not exactly difficult for someone with the most basic knowledge of networking to disguise that information or masquerade as someone they’re not.

There is a lot more to tracking these groups than ip addresses. To impersonate any of the known groups you will need a lot of knowledge about the tools and infra that they use.

And if you have that knowledge it's impossible to imitate? Can't really tell if your comment is refuting or agreeing, attribution is hard.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#200

Post by milemi » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 5:32 AM UTC

throwaway-klsdj wrote: post #103

milemi wrote: post #98

I can’t think of a historical example of economic sanctions even moving the situation toward the putative goal of regime change in the target country, let alone achieving that goal. I’ve lived under UN sanctions imposed on Serbia under Milosevic regime during the nineties. Two things happen: 1) people in the regime leadership don’t suffer 2) the little people who do suffer feel attacked and rally around the leader. P…

I'm not sure the entire plan is to get the country to do what you want. It's also about not supporting your enemies. Why send them raw materials, hardware, software that they will then use to fight against you? This seems to have worked for the countries you listed and a few more with the possible exception of Iran. They are much weaker than they could have been and are therefore not as significant a threat.

That rings true to me, and it sounds very cruel and depressing. By that measure it hasn’t worked with North Korea either, slowly but surely they have turned into a significant threat to US.

It may also turn out to be just a short term improvement in safety. Hatred toward the West as the perceived, and real, tormentor festers in the population over generations, and that’s a very bad thing long term.

I’m not saying I know of a better solution.