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Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

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Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#191

Post by xioxox »

oaththrowaway wrote: post #187
xioxox wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting on the battery lifetime. My ThinkPad Carbon X1 gen 6 can do 10-12 hrs in Ubuntu, though I had to switch the bios sleep mode to Linux. Maybe the lack of an Nvidia graphics card helps.

Could you go into more detail about this?

I haven't done much special customization on the ThinkPad, other than updating the BIOS in Windows (it's dual boot) and changing the BIOS sleep setting. The sleep setting disables "Modern sleep", where the computer stays awake when sleeping, which isn't so well supported in Linux.

Currently I have 11 hours remaining, on 78% battery charge with a fairly dim screen (I use a setting to prevent the battery charging fully to extend its lifetime). Powertop shows a draw of 4.1W. Strangely the computer seems to run hotter in Windows and the battery lifetime is a bit shorter.

I'm using Ubuntu 18.04, running KDE. The laptop (Carbon X1 6th Gen) has a very nice keyboard, red trackpoint, 1TB NVMe SSD, 16GB RAM, i7-8550U CPU and a 2560x1440 display. It also has USB-C plus a couple of USB-A and HDMI sockets.

Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#192

Post by rimliu »

pm wrote: post #81
Glyptodon wrote: post #7

In my opinion the hated puck mouse is far and away better than the current Magic Mouse, which will will pretty much destroy your hands and give you carpal tunnel guaranteed. The puck mouse had an orientation trough on the button that was easy enough to get used to and, more importantly, was huge enough to be substantive and supportive under a hand. As far as I'm concerned the magic mouse is a class action lawsuit in…

I've been using Magic Mice for ten years without any problems. Was there a model that had different ergonomics than the rest? I think I've used all models. It's been my favourite mouse since I started using it (mainly for the touch functionality).

It is also my favorite mouse. I have zero problems with its ergonomics and zero problems with the charging port being at the bottom.

Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#194

Post by erpellan »

WoodenChair wrote: post #183
darkpuma wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember CRT touchscreens being used as cash registers in the late 90s. It's true, touch was nothing new. What was new was the combination of capacitive touch and a slick responsive UI. Previous systems had unresponsive GUIs or inferior touchscreen technology like resistive, IR or lightpen. Getting both right at the same time was the big first for the iphone, not the bare concept of touchscreens as input devices.

What both you and grandparent are missing is the biggest iPhone touch innovation of all: multitouch. Multitouch was invented largely by a one-person startup that Apple purchased, and the iPhone became the first device to mass-produce it. The book The One Device covers its development well: https://amzn.to/2lrbKA7

I owned a fingerworks keyboard in 2003. The multi touch and gestures were amazing. And it was physically painful to type on. Try touch typing on a solid surface for any length of time. Fingertip bruises are no fun. The company mysteriously vanished shortly after announcing an after market multitouch keyboard for the iBook...

Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#195

Post by rimliu »

atombender wrote: post #161
pier25 wrote: post #42

I don't know why, but Apple has constantly had bad mice. The hockey puck is mentioned in the article which is probably the worst mouse Apple has made. Then came the Apple Pro Mouse (the transparent one) which didn't have a scroll wheel and IIRC didn't have a right click either. In the early 00s those features were super common. I remember having a Microsoft's Intellimouse with a scroll wheel in the late 90s. Then cam…

Not just the mice themselves. For a long time, Macs had an insane mouse pointer acceleration curve. It required long movements in order to move the pointer anywhere beyond the immediate area, and it affected both the trackpad and wired mice. Back when I switched from Windows to Mac in 2006, I found this perhaps the most disruptive aspect; everything else was pretty standard GUI stuff, but the mouse behaviour was a ni…

You can change the acceleration in the preferences. I don't remember if it was there in 2006, but I assume so.

Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#196

Post by rimliu »

minimaxir wrote: post #5

I'm surprised the article didn't mention the Lightning-charged Magic Mouse given the infamous memes. (IMO, it's not bad design; you're not supposed to be using it plugged-in 24/7, you're supposed it to plug it in for occasions when you aren't using the mouse anyways) EDIT: it was mentioned, I missed it

As a user of the said mouse, I agree with you: it is not a bad design. I would be surprised if those claiming otherwise have never used one. This is common with Apple critics: many a quick to criticize things or solutions without ever trying.

Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#197

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

asark wrote: post #51
pier25 wrote: post #42

I don't know why, but Apple has constantly had bad mice. The hockey puck is mentioned in the article which is probably the worst mouse Apple has made. Then came the Apple Pro Mouse (the transparent one) which didn't have a scroll wheel and IIRC didn't have a right click either. In the early 00s those features were super common. I remember having a Microsoft's Intellimouse with a scroll wheel in the late 90s. Then cam…

> they added the charging port at the bottom of the mouse (facepalm). I thought this was incredibly stupid until I actually used one. The battery lasts so long and charges so fast that it's not a problem, to the point that I wouldn't pay so much as a dollar to "fix" it by moving the port to the edge.

I dislike the inconsistency where the corresponding keyboard is a USB keyboard with a cable connected, but the mouse isn't (and physically couldn't be).

Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#198

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

leoc wrote: post #117
idlewords wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gratuitously making a mouse unusable during charging, where there was an easy and obvious way to make it usable during charging, is bad design.

But there's no easy and obvious way to make a good cable connector that will make the mouse usable during charging. You could add a connector that works somewhat poorly, on the theory that those shortcomings don't matter since the mouse will only be plugged in occasionally and briefly. But if you do that then many users will in fact leave the mouse plugged in permanently, "just in case", effectively transforming it,…

What's wrong with being able to use it as a wired mouse? Apple's bluetooth keyboard can be used as a wired keyboard for people that want that or in emergencies.

Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#199

Post by madeofpalk »

idlewords wrote: post #100
thomasjudge wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As CEO, one of Steve’s key functions was to serve as chief product officer. Design is an element of great products, and at Apple it has been a key element and key differentiator. As has been oft-noted, Tim is in no way a product person, and so without Steve we have seen design imperatives (thinness) unchecked

Jobs had plenty of design failures on his conscience, like the G3 cube, the skeuomorphism fad, and the hockey puck mouse. We should not pretend the guy had irreplaceable design sense.

> the skeuomorphism fad

It was a 'fad', not a failure. It's also not even clear what Ive had to do with that, seeing as Software Design was under Forstall and it wasn't until the iOS 7 redesign that software design came under Ive's control.

_That_ design was arguably a failure though.

Re: Jony Ive’s Mistakes: When Beautiful Design Is Bad Design

#200

Post by WoodenChair »

erpellan wrote: post #194
WoodenChair wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What both you and grandparent are missing is the biggest iPhone touch innovation of all: multitouch. Multitouch was invented largely by a one-person startup that Apple purchased, and the iPhone became the first device to mass-produce it. The book The One Device covers its development well: https://amzn.to/2lrbKA7

I owned a fingerworks keyboard in 2003. The multi touch and gestures were amazing. And it was physically painful to type on. Try touch typing on a solid surface for any length of time. Fingertip bruises are no fun. The company mysteriously vanished shortly after announcing an after market multitouch keyboard for the iBook...

That's the company that was purchased by Apple, as described in the book I linked to above.
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