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Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#191

Post by dazilcher »

unnouinceput wrote: post #171

Usually I am the object of envy from others (family, friends, acquaintance, neighbors). As a freelancer whom can afford to spend a lot of time doing fun stuff and travel with my family, they always ask me how much money I make. I just explain I am a freelancer and I do stuff on internet, but I never disclose my real income. One time I met an old friend whom I lost touch, we were in the beginning of 2000's simple prog…

So you avoid disclosing your income, but then ask your old colleague point-blank for his. Care to elaborate on this apparent inconsistency?

Have you considered his jaw dropping has little to do with your made up figures, and more with your general attitude?

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#192

Post by steven2012 »

bronco21016 wrote: post #183
steven2012 wrote: post #85

Louis CK once said "The only time you should look at what's on some else's plate of food is to check if they have enough." That really put things in perspective to me. If I'm not making enough for the amount of work that I do, I will find another job.

That’s a cool quote. Do you remember where this was said? I would like to hear the rest of the context. Thanks!

It looks like it came from his Louis TV show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNo_Hhm5r8o

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#193

Post by onion2k »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #146
CalRobert wrote: post #81

At the end of the day, it's just a fucking job. If you need the money I understand the envy, and I've been there. But ultimately most of us are working really hard to make other people rich. Being really good at that game (and it's a pretty bitter game) isn't something to be envious of. I have never seen a high paying job in tech that wasn't ALSO higher stress and generally more hours. I'm sure exceptions exist, but…

My question to people with this attitude is, what is the point of your life? I've lost a lot of friends and recognize that life is way too short to not be putting as much time as possible toward something you find totally compelling. The stock answer is contentment and "happiness." The most content person I've ever met was a flower cart man in Belmopan, Belize. Probably made $100 a week at most. He knew all he wanted…

what is the point of your life?

Hackernews points mostly.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#194

Post by halfjoking »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #152
halfjoking wrote: post #113

I'm not envious of people like that - they are still corporate slaves, working on other people's ideas, trading all their time for a little bit of extra money. The praise/acclaim they are getting is so bosses/society can exploit them better. The difference between $80k or $200k salary makes almost no difference in quality of life. The $200k dev is often more stressed and not as happy as they look on the outside. Most…

It sounds to me like you’re assuming that one path to happiness is best and because of that, are missing the fact that many people are happy with their jobs and lives. I don’t think the journey is more important than the end here. “The end” is being happy. If you can simply exist and be happy, that’s going to be more satisfying than aggressively pursuing the path you believe leads to happiness. Looking at happy peopl…

You're right that some people are genuinely happy with their jobs/lives working for someone else. Actually that might be the vast majority of people.

That's not for me though - like I said if I was rich I'd still be working 60+ hour weeks. I think other people would spend more time with family/friends in that scenario?

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#195

Post by coconut_crab »

There are people I know who are making two to five times more than I, including those whom I have personally mentored. The reason is that they do job hopping more than I do (been working in this position for 5 years) and the startups boom in my country has increased the salary greatly[1].

On one hand, more money means more financial freedom. But on the other hand it comes with several drawbacks: 966 style working hours, instability etc... so I am contend with staying here because at least I can create values by my own paces, at least for now.

tl;dr: be happy with what you can create

[1] 1500$/month is the household income needed to get into top 1% here, and that's also above average salary of one 'senior' developer.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#196

Post by ISL »

Munger and Buffett have long addressed envy with a response like the following:

"The idea of caring that someone is making money faster [than you are] is one of the deadly sins. Envy is a really stupid sin because it’s the only one you could never possibly have any fun at. There’s a lot of pain and no fun. Why would you want to get on that trolley?"

I have found that perspective to be helpful. There's no upside for anyone.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#197

Post by JohnBooty »

ludston wrote: post #184
JohnBooty wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Your appraisal is bleak and, fortunately, disconnected from reality. Cognitive dissonance, indeed! Think about any life goal that requires significant work, such as "I'd like to be a superstar engineer" or "I've got no savings, but I want to save up and buy a house" or "I'd like to become a black-belt martial artist" or "I'd like to publish a successful novel." How long does it take to achieve something like tha…

> That's not cognitive dissonance. That's learning and growing. This is committing the straw-man fallacy. The poster that this is responding to did not elaborate on what cognitive-dissonance they are referring to. In this case "learning and growing" is an optimistic, ego-stroking spin on "admitting defeat". I believe that AndrewKemendo has chosen his words carefully because being able to lose and fail graciously is m…

My post's not straw man. I responded to precisely what the parent poster said. They were very specific about the cognitive dissonance they perceived.

If we're pointing out actual logical fallacies...

    to lose and fail graciously is more virtuous than 
    trying to preserve the ego and pretend that it was a win
In a universe where those are the only two possibilities? Sure.

You and OP are presenting a false dichotomy. Parent poster claimed that unachieved goals can have only two outcomes: (1) cognitive dissonance where the subject "pretends" to be satisfied with the outcome (2) the subject admits failure.

It's absolutely bizarre to deny that a person could, for example, actually shift their goals over a period of time, and conclude that they are engaging in cognitive dissonance if they decided on a different path.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#198

Post by raynr »

Maybe a perspective change.

The possibility of ever being envious of people who are objectively better/faster/etc than me is absolutely alien to me. They're better than me in my chosen profession, end of story.

Sometimes you're behind because that's just life being what it is, or you missed an opportunity out of bad luck. Meh, can't be mad about that.

In a number of cases, I've seen people who aren't up to par get ahead, but those are few and far in between, and not worth worrying about.

The biggest problem is people get ahead through "unethical" means. This bothers me. If this is what bothers you, I sorry, I don't know how to help you. I too would like advice.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#199

Post by [deleted] »

selestify wrote: post #189
ludston wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not cognitive dissonance. That's learning and growing. This is committing the straw-man fallacy. The poster that this is responding to did not elaborate on what cognitive-dissonance they are referring to. In this case "learning and growing" is an optimistic, ego-stroking spin on "admitting defeat". I believe that AndrewKemendo has chosen his words carefully because being able to lose and fail graciously is m…

But "lose" and "fail," as well as "win," are subjective. What counted as "losing" when you started may become "winning" by the time 5 years have passed, due to the change in perspective.

[deleted]
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