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Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

nytimes.com

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Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#191

Post by RandomBacon »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #76
baroffoos wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article pushes the idea that this is not just for people planing to leave soon but for anyone who wants to live the luxury life which is just ridiculous. Also megacorps have been pushing for this as well, for example the trend to pay a huge monthly fee for your phone and plan which forces you to essentially buy a new phone every 2 years.

What definition of “force” are you using? What is stopping someone from finishing paying the monthly cost of the phone after 2 years and then not signing a new contract to lease a new phone? Every single mobile provider in the US makes it clear how much mobile service is if you want to pay for just the mobile network, or to lease the phone and the mobile network. Apple offers a monthly payment plan that is equivalent…

> What definition...

The one that people who make poor financial decisions use.

The service providers didn't automatically drop your monthly rate after you the subsidized phone was paid off, so people felt like they might as well get a new phone since they were paying for it anyway.

> What is stopping...

Nothing except that people don't know any better.

Tell everyone you know (without being annoying) how much you pay for unlimited by using a prepaid plan on your top-of-the-line phone. Maybe they'll start to learn. I've already switched a few people, you can too.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#192

Post by lordCarbonFiber »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #189
vonseel wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. This comparison is usually apples to oranges. For example, in Austin, a 20s-30s homebuyer may have a budget of 300-400k for a property. This amount pretty much limits the options to homes on the edge of town or in suburbs. The same person may prefer renting in or near downtown, if they aren’t buying, and that could cost just as much as a mortgage on a much larger ho…

That's because Austin (and Denver and Seattle for that matter) are basically SF Lite. Pick any city that isn't having it's housing market turned upside down by California monopoly money (well, tech monopoly money) and you statement does not apply.

>Pick a city where there aren't many jobs, there isn't much to do, and young people aren't interested in moving their and my antiquated ideas about what the housing market should look like hold. FTFY

I suspect people, especially people considering buying their first home, have a specific profile of locations that behave in this new way because of that interest.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#193

Post by jbarberu »

roland35 wrote: post #174
jaabe wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark where I live you can loan 1 million Danish kroner at around 5k each month. A decent downtown apartment in a bigger city or a house in the suburbs is 2-4 million. Renting the equivalent is 10-15k, and with renting you obviously skip a lot of the maintenance cost and taxes. On the flip side loans are tax-deductible, meaning you actually don’t pay 20k to borrow 4 million, you pay 12k. It can still be cheaper…

That is interesting loans are tax deductible in Denmark, I always thought that was just a US thing! From my understanding of the new federal tax law though, the higher standard deduction makes the mortgage tax credit less feasible for most people.

Nah, it's the same in Sweden :)

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#194

Post by ryanmercer »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #157

I have thought about this lately because my wife and I moved to Illinois so I could accept a job managing a machine learning team. I retired and now we are just now moving back to Arizona. I spent five hours yesterday watching our stuff being wrapped and put on a truck. Lots of possessions. The thing is, I have some stuff that I really like. A teak bookcase I bought in the 1970s when I got my first real job after fin…

>I see the advantages of not being encumbered by ‘stuff’ but some possessions help define our personal history and are simply a pleasure to own.

Indeed. I have one of those giant wooden spoons you hang on a wall that I got at goodwill for like 3$. Most people would go "that is hideous, stupid and is just taking up space, throw it away" but I go "we carried that thing around all summer one year like a scepter being incredibly goofy with it in public, I'd never throw this thing away, we had a lot of fun that summer, I haven't even seen some of those friends in a few years now".

Then you get the reddit minimalist types that are like "Then take a digital photo of it and throw it away". No humanbot, I'm not like that.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#195

Post by suff »

Renting everything means you go from managing dozens of objects to dozens of contracts. Imagine managing acceptable use, wear and tear, cost depreciation, return dates, rate increases, and of course your time to manage this is counted as zero in the cost model. Sounds like a nightmare.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#196

Post by foldr »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #118
oarsinsync wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London's also a bit of an odd one in that regard. You either need half a million+ for a shoebox or to live way out of town, and run the risk that the foreign-investment-fueled housing bubble collapses off the back of Brexit, leaving you with more mortgage than equity. (This is why I'm still renting...)

At this point one has to wonder, who's making money off Brexit situation still being unresolved...

The current situation is perfectly comprehensible without recourse to conspiracy theories. Brexit hasn't happened because there is no Parliamentary majority for any specific form of Brexit. Meanwhile, one of the main architects of Brexit doesn't appear to be too worried about the financial implications: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/29/matt-hancoc...

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#197

Post by rietta »

dagw wrote: post #106
rietta wrote: post #35

Its hard to wrap my head around renting furniture and cloths. Most of the pieces in my house are gifts from family, many are antiques and very functional. Getting married and buying a house was all the excuse our families needed to set us up. I know not everyone has this but many do. Saved a ton of money vs buying new or renting.

When my wife and I bought a house we had to almost barricade the driveway to prevent our families from dumping all their old 'junk' on us. While we do have a bunch of stuff from our families, for us buying our furniture for our place to make it like we wanted was an important part of making the house ours.

Understand! We lived by the motto "don't look a gift horse in the mouth". We were quite cash poor after getting married and buying a house in the same year :-)

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#198

Post by dsfyu404ed »

vonseel wrote: post #141
durnygbur wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 4 years you paid for the sofa 2400$, "rest of your money" is -400$, sofa doesn't belong to you, and in case of scummy renter you own money for damage repairs and cleaning. Ready for legal litigation?

Very good point even if only because I was too lazy to do the math in my head. $2000 is a lot for a sofa, and if I understand correctly is what people spend if they want a sofa for a long time and not just a cheap IKEA sofa to throw out after the dog / kids ruin it in 2 years. If someone’s spending this much on a sofa, I hope they expect to keep it 10 years and should be buying not making payments!

A $2000(!!!) sofa should last you a major phase of your life. If you have three newborns then it should take everything they can throw at it for the next ~20yr. If your kids just moved out for good it should be the last sofa you ever buy.

That said, you don't get what you pay for, you never get more than you pay for. Not being an expert in evaluating sofa quality I'll take the cheap Ikea sofas that last half as long.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#199

Post by suff »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #185
dingaling wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, one can use the savings from paying rent What savings? Rent as you stated already includes anticipated maintenance costs, property taxes, the landlord's mortgage costs, often an agency fee, plus a margin for the landlord. I don't think I've seen rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. The main advantage of renting is avoiding long-term commitment but you'll pay a premium for that flexibility. O…

Specifics, specifics. The rent vs buy debate will not be answered with finality, it always comes down to specifics. You're wrong about renting, I save a lot and invest much of it, while renting.

Have you ever gotten a six figure check when you move out? Happens to buyers all the time.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#200

Post by jbarberu »

dagw wrote: post #122
Barrin92 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

index funds, they've averaged about 7-8% over the last 20 years and cost you basically nothing. mind you renting your toothbrush probably isn't worth it, but if you're thinking about spending thousands of dollars and compare that to the compound interest you earn in a passive fund over a few years, you'd be surprised how much you lose out on. In fact that's one of the drivers between middle class and upper class ineq…

compare that to the compound interest you earn in a passive fund over a few years So I did. Remember you've still got pay the $50/month out of that savings. Even with 7% guaranteed annual interest on your initial investment you're still losing money after month 46 with renting at $50/month compared to paying $2000 up front.

If the company renting out the couch didn't come out on top, they'd just put their money in index funds instead of buying inventory...
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