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Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

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Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#191

Post by davisr »

khawkins wrote: post #161
JohnFen wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the following is my opinion only. > I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. I can easily explain my extreme hostility to this: that it happens without my consent and that companies put so much work into actively evading the defenses I put up against it. > No one likes ads This isn't about ads. This is about data collection. If ads existed without the spying, I would…

You haven't convinced me that the data they collect can harm you as an individual. How is your life actually negatively impacted? How is this a more rational concern than conspiracy theorists thinking the government is monitoring their private phone calls?

Dude, it's not a conspiracy. https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#192

Post by cameronbrown »

gpm wrote: post #186
talaketu wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wrong. it should take > (2) Charge a customer a penalty or offer a customer a discount based on the customer's decision to provide or not provide consent under paragraph A.

Providing extra bandwidth isn't necessarily a discount though, especially if you structure your offerings in a way that it's impossible to purchase the extra bandwidth. It's against the spirit of the law of course, but maybe not the letter.

Extra bandwidth for the same amount of money is effectively a discount.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#193

Post by altfredd »

mrguyorama wrote: post #11

I couldn't find links to the actual bill anywhere so I tracked it down: http://legislature.maine.gov/LawMakerWeb/summary.asp?ID=2800... The summary: "This bill prohibits a provider of broadband Internet access service from using, disclosing, selling or permitting access to customer personal information unless the customer expressly consents to that use, disclosure, sale or access. The bill provides other exceptions u…

This law sound like it was written by data brokers. It does nothing at best and legitimizes corrupt practices at worst.

WTF is "consent" doing here? Why would ISP ever need to sell someone's data in order to operate? Do they also plan to explicitly prohibit ISPs from torturing customers and selling their organs? From selling illegal drugs to minors? Dear state of Maine, I too would like to waive all my legal liabilities by making my victims sign a bunch of paperwork!

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#194

Post by 8bitsrule »

khawkins wrote: post #60
malloreon wrote: post #35

I look forward to the day when selling user's data requires the user's opt-in every single time a third party wants to access that data. No more "yes to all" or allowing blanket usage in TOS/EULAs. People who use apps that sell their data should be bombarded with requests to use that data each and every single time, until they either decide the app isn't worth it or the app decides they should try a different busines…

I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. No one likes ads, but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If I'm going to see ads, I'd rather them be something I might potentially find useful than something irrelevant. If I end up buying their product, the exchange is mutually beneficial and both parties walk away with value from th…

It has been one year since the EU's GDPR law went into effect. What they did and why they did it is described in the PDF linked below. Some of their rationale is spelled out in Section 1.1.1. Key principles in Section 3.

https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-co...

There are plenty of opportunities for abuse here in the US, and we're all reminded of them constantly. The proliferation of ad-blockers and anti-tracking software shows that 'extreme hostility' is widespread. I have yet to see any substantial animus in the EU over the reasonable measures they've taken. Hopefully action on a state-by-state basis in the US will encourage the industry to demand explicit legal restrictions.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#195

Post by sjy »

khawkins wrote: post #168
kelnos wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If we had a reasonable micropayments system so I could spend a few cents per article I read online from non-subscription sites, I'd be thrilled. I do not want to see ads, ever. I do not want companies collecting or selling my activity patterns. If I've signed up for something, I don't want my personal details sold to someone else i…

Legislating such a micropayments system would centralize the monetization of internet services in a way unprecedented since the advent of the internet. If you're worried a lack of Net Neutrality would suppress free speech, this would strangle it. You'd create two internets: a bourgeoisie sphere of corporate sites with enough influence to be included in the micropayment system, and the unwashed masses, the sites deeme…

Which internet would this site be on?

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#196

Post by altfredd »

ssalka wrote: post #159
ssss11 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t the customer consent just become a line in the T&C’s and unless you accept it you can’t use their service? This would be a similar situation to the cookie disclaimers.

Isn't this covered by: > The bill prohibits a provider from refusing to serve a customer...if the customer...does not consent to the use, disclosure, sale or access [of their data]. ?

> The bill prohibits a provider

Nobody cares, what provider does. What matters is whether or not you sign a damn consent form.

Suppose, that there is a popular mobile App, written by Zhang Li Ltd. The App allows you to buy travel tickets, receive discounts in local stores and upload contents of your address book to it's servers. After a while you notice, that everyone uses it. Your local store no longer sells large amounts of grocery unless you make a reservation from The App. All train tickets must be booked by using The App. A bunch of local utilities stopped accepting payments unless you send them via The App. The thing is just so convenient!

One day you notice, that The App requires you to sign some "consent form" in order to use it's advanced features. A month later it threatens to delete your account if you don't "consent" (of course, it won't say so directly — "our ML algo detected, that you are Russian hacker! plz confirm your identity! account secuuuurity!" — that's how it will roll). The App is absolutely not connected to your ISP — it's authors just want to buy the data, that's all!

Reminds you of anything?

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#197

Post by sjy »

TomMckenny wrote: post #188

So given that this law and others like it are necessary, does this imply that court verdicts and silence have neutered the right to privacy? Actually I wonder, have there been any major decisions since Roe v Wade that have affirmed a right to privacy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas is an example. But these constitutional decisions are about the validity of particular State laws; they don't create free-standing rights that can be enforced against companies that violate your privacy.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#198

Post by rapind »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #174
rapind wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's rife with bad actors due to a lack of regulation. And even the good actors are kind of forced to be bad actors in order to compete. Lacking better regulation it's just a horrible business model for consumers, with really no exceptions since anyone who plays nice will ultimately lose out to less scrupulous players.

Could you provide some examples of the kinds of regulations that you believe are required?

Privacy mainly and ownership of data. Something along the lines of GDPR in spirit. I also think the details / fine print matter or loopholes will be found.

I think though that appropriate regulation is going to seriously hamper if not utterly destroy the business models of some really big players.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#199

Post by rapind »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #171
noir_lord wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turn on feature you really don’t want? Combined with asking you constantly if you say no and never asking again if you say yes. I hate that shit and it creates a negative feeling for me towards whatever product is doing it, if I’m aware you are trying to trick me why would I trust you. It must work (for some set of work) though or they wouldn’t do it.

> It must work (for some set of work) though or they wouldn’t do it. Tired people, busy people, people who don't understand any of it. I too sometimes just click through consent forms without reading, 'cause ain't nobody has time for this crap, but I'm happy with the knowledge that GDPR makes this mostly safe (and in cases where it doesn't, at some point I'll start sending data access and removal requests just out of…

This is a really good point about GDPR making it mostly safe. Making consumer's feel secure in the knowledge that they can ignore massive legal documents on some random website is a win in my book.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#200

Post by rapind »

nostalgk wrote: post #104
rapind wrote: post #61

I can predict the "Dark Patterns" right now. Giant Accept button and 6pt font opt-out link.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20062303 Apparently it's opt-in.

Yeah that's my understanding too. What I mean is the opt-in will be a Giant "Accept" button with a minuscule "No thanks" link somewhere on the bottom right.
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