Flagging this because I can't handle the HN discussion on the nature of rape from first principles.
It is so awful. I came to the site this morning because I expected to see discussion of Assange, but this is just unbearable.
Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
191–200 of 377 posts
Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#192Come on people. We don't have a lot of information to judge on. But if we are having a debate about the meaning of rape, then we are all side stepping the incredible high chance this is politically motivated nonsense. Nobody had ever been extradited for this sort of thing. Sweden is special in that it enabled it based on a testimony, even after the testimony has been revoked and without the victims pressing charges o…
What makes you think no one has been extradited for this sort of thing?
According to the EU there were over 16000 warrants issued in 2015 (the latest number I could find)[0].
And way back in 2009 we were worrying about how easy arrest warrants could be attained and that Poland might be getting extradition happy - going after chicken thieves.[1]
Assange is certainly deserving of his day in court - he's the one who did everything in his power to avoid it!
[0] https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_european_arrest_warrant-...
[1] https://www.economist.com/britain/2009/12/30/wanted-for-chic...
Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#193Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#194I'm not sure why the charges keep being reported as "rape", when there's no suggestion he did any such thing. The charges relate to a Swedish law about not using a condom. The woman alleges that Assange removed the condom at some point during sex, without her consent to do so, and that she noticed afterwards. Is it wrong? Yes, of course it is. Is it "rape"? No, but the media has repeated it often enough that now the…
As has been mentioned multiple times, it was rape. The European Arrest Warrant says: ( https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html ) > 4. Rape > On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enkoping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep. was in a helpless state. This was ruled by the [High Court] to be rape under [Eng…
That's strange... I really don't recall this claim from when this was discussed on HN years some ago. It's right there in the arrest warrant though, so I guess I'm mistaken, and apologise.
Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#195Assange himself and the rape charges have been politicized to such an extent that I find it essentially meaningless to pontificate about what may or may not have happened in Sweden. His character has been debated endlessly, but when one thinks of what WikiLeaks has actually revealed, I find it totally likely that a systematic effort was made to curtail him: https://twitter.com/SomersetBean/status/1116916146458877952/…
Exactly. There is almost certainly an organized government sponsored campaign to discredit him in every way possible. That means the things we read in the media about him need to be considered very critically.
Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#196Assange is accused of unlawful coercion and "lesser-degree rape" (mindre grov våldtäkt). In the first case, the complainant willingly had an intercourse with him. But after sex, she realized that the condom had a hole. She claims that he made it. In the second case, the complainant also willingly had an intercourse with Assange, they slept naked together. The next day in the morning, he penetrated her without a condo…
Why isn't it rape/sexual batter for a woman to have sex without bc then? Or at least to have sex without bc if she made the guy think she had it? How did men's reproductive rights get passed over while women's are comprehensive?
Because birth control is not the issue. At all.
Sterile men are not allowed to initiate unconsented sex, just because there can be no pregnancy.
Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you think people would misunderstand “rape” in this way, I’d suggest you spend your effort educating people who don’t understand the word, rather than trying to “correct” people using the word to mean what it means.
Well, solution would be introducing two new terms to solve this problem.
We already have different terms for different kinds of rape. For example, statutory rape, aggravated rape, forcible rape.
You can shout at clouds and try to change the language if you want, but that’s an extremely unproductive and entirely pointless path to take.
Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#198Come on people. We don't have a lot of information to judge on. But if we are having a debate about the meaning of rape, then we are all side stepping the incredible high chance this is politically motivated nonsense. Nobody had ever been extradited for this sort of thing. Sweden is special in that it enabled it based on a testimony, even after the testimony has been revoked and without the victims pressing charges o…
What makes you think no one has been extradited for this sort of thing? According to the EU there were over 16000 warrants issued in 2015 (the latest number I could find)[0]. And way back in 2009 we were worrying about how easy arrest warrants could be attained and that Poland might be getting extradition happy - going after chicken thieves.[1] Assange is certainly deserving of his day in court - he's the one who did…
16000 warrants for people having sex with their sleeping sex partner without a condom?
Did those 16000 also enjoy 16 million pounds of police surveillance and an international man hunt?
This is great news. If we continue to invest so much effort in solving the slightest hint of sexual inappropriateness we'll completely eliminate sexual crimes. Perhaps even sex itself.
Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#199Assange is accused of unlawful coercion and "lesser-degree rape" (mindre grov våldtäkt). In the first case, the complainant willingly had an intercourse with him. But after sex, she realized that the condom had a hole. She claims that he made it. In the second case, the complainant also willingly had an intercourse with Assange, they slept naked together. The next day in the morning, he penetrated her without a condo…
I feel sad, because this is not the right debate to have, and I initiated it. First, I repeat: What he allegedly did is a serious and horrible crime. Also, people need to see the elephant in the room. These two victims' case is weaponized by some governments to scare whistle-blowers. Assange directly or indirectly exposed many horrible crimes, including war rapes, group rapes, mass murders. People need to remember th…
I see no indication that this was “weaponized.” Assange was wanted for questioning in Sweden. He was in the UK and would have been arrested and extradited. This is all completely normal. It went off the rails when he sought refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, which was his own choice.
Supposedly he did this because he was afraid that he’d be hauled off to Guantanamo Bay or whatever, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
At any rate, we should separate these things. The whistleblowing done by Assange and the rape (allegedly) done by Assange are unrelated. Talking about the whistleblowing should not involve minimizing the rape.
Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
> one cannot consent if one is not conscious would that negate previously established consent? As in "hey if you wanna wake me up tomorrow with sex that would be nice"
At least under English law, you cannot provide consent in advance; you must have the ability to provide and withdraw consent at the time of the act.
Citation?