Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#191

Post by Jedi72 » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:32 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #178

cortesoft wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite get what people expect... do they think that once google creates something, they are obligated to continue it indefinitely? That seems like an unreasonable expectation.

We expect web services to go away eventually. We expect physical products to keep working until they physically break. The problem is when companies sell physical products with a web service as a fundamental part of the product. Companies want to treat the web service like any other web service, while their customers reasonably expect their physical product to act like any other physical product. Edit: I want to add…

> this is a really easy problem to solve. Support or create an open standard...

We call it the tech industry but 90% of it is actually politics. Big money influences things the most but everyone basically looks out for their own interest, right down to programmers shilling their favourite language/framework. Thats what makes this a difficult problem.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#192

Post by driverdan » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:34 AM UTC

Despegar wrote: post #27

bhhaskin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reminder to never buy a "smart" device. At the end of the day they are pretty dumb.

Once again HomeKit's design proves to be prescient. https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/3/16083996/internet-of-shit-...

HomeKit is not open and requires Apple devices.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#193

Post by _bxg1 » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:36 AM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #176

cortesoft wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite get what people expect... do they think that once google creates something, they are obligated to continue it indefinitely? That seems like an unreasonable expectation.

Some countries have laws which require devices to be fit-for-purposes that were advertised prior to sale. If consumers purchased a product based on claims made by Google, and those claims are not true, will regulators get involved? US Federal Trade Commission, https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_statements... (1983) > The basic question is whether the act or practice is likely to affect the consumer's c…

My girlfriend recently bought a sleep tracker device, from the store, new with shrink wrap, only to take it home and find out the service required to operate it had already shut down.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#194

Post by ocdtrekkie » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:37 AM UTC

palebluedot wrote: post #33

This seems to include all of us using them in open-source "hobbyist" environments, like Home Assistant and Node-Red. I'm quite frustrated by this; I'll never buy another Nest product again, and I now regret my purchase of the Nest Thermostat. All the rest of my IoT stuff is either open-source hardware/software, or at the least local-only with known protocol interfaces. This was the one exception I made for IoT "cloud…

The month Google originally bought Nest, I sold my thermostat to someone else and picked up an Insteon thermostat instead. My Insteon thermostat's been a reliable partner since, and doesn't send my data to anyone. I actually turned a profit on it, since I got rebate credit from my electric company originally for buying it.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#195

Post by ImprovedSilence » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:39 AM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #172

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn I miss Reader.

Why? There are tons of perfectly good rss feed readers. I've never understood this one. I was a heavy Reader user, seamlessly switched to Feedly like the day after it was spun down, and never thought about it again.

Do you mostly consume text, or images/rich media? Something about Reader just worked for me. It was partly some blogs I followed and wanted to keep up with reading, but the meat of it for me was just scrolling endless pictures from various design blogs, that i'd sometimes star or label. Or some webcomic that I'd share with my handful of friends that were on there. Or I'd catch up whatever BMX or ski edits that came out. The interface was just clean for seamless and endless scrolling of all that media, (without titles and sources and headings taking up too much space), and the organization was clutch. Nothing else has caught my eye since. I've tried Feedly, old reader, and a few others, but none of them have me coming back for more, I just never got in the habit with them like i did for Reader.

Looking back, I guess it served as a kind of instagram/facebook feed, but for the internet that I wanted to see (which would differ from time to time, sometimes i want webcomics, sometimes I want ffffound <- this is largly something social media has yet to pick up on, the ebb and flow of what our attention wants). But no social media has captured my attention like Reader did...

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#196

Post by pm90 » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:41 AM UTC

_jal wrote: post #114

dotBen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, they just did a Twitter. I lived through the Twitter ecosystem collapse and now I'm a VC I worry about investing in startups that are built on any large ecosystem where there isn't an alignment of clear economic interest. Google of all people doing this just made it tougher for everyone else to maintain confidence in large vendor platforms.

If you build on someone else's platform, the best case is you get to be a sharecropper and can make money as long as you don't make so much that your platform-betters get jealous. The more typical case is this, where you get to spend your time and money doing real-world R&D and discovery of what works for them, for free. If you're going to dance with a vampire, don't be surprised when it bites you.

> If you build on someone else's platform,

But isn't that the height of specialization? What does a platform mean anyways if its only used for one thing and not by others?

It it somewhat unfortunate that things like this make it abundantly clear that such a reality is not possible.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#197

Post by hedora » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:41 AM UTC

bhhaskin wrote: post #128

Robotbeat wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you roll your own. But then we’re in the bad old days of home automation just for tinkerers...

I honestly have give it quite a bit of thought as to what it would take to start an open source hardware company. Everything has a user accessable API and the option to use their own firmware if they want.

The more important thing than hack-ability is that the product is rock solid.

That implies stuff like "there is one way to do it", "95+% branch coverage in unit tests", and "100,000-1M hours of automated stress testing of real hardware before shipping a new board rev."

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#198

Post by fooey » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:50 AM UTC

Causality1 wrote: post #131

If you're even slightly surprised by this you weren't paying attention when Google bought the Revolv smart home ecosystem then took it out back and shot it. All the customers got when their expensive smart home devices shut down was a "Thanks for playing, here's a coupon for saving when you buy a Nest because we just turned off all your shit". Google is a company with severe ADHD. Consumers expect home appliances to…

When Lowes shut down their IRIS system, they actually sent out checks refunding every cent all of their customers had paid out into their hardware.

I was completely shocked

I haven't found a replacement for them yet, but I'm incredibly wary of investing into any ecosystem these days.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#199

Post by parrellel » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:51 AM UTC

pugworthy wrote: post #133

johnwheeler wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep repeating this in your comments like a broken record. What do _you_ care that people care? People obviously do care or they wouldn’t be voicing on HN? Why does that bother you so much?

Because I believe many of the responses are irrational, and not expressing what the actual underlying feelings are of the commenters. People are upset that there is a reduction in the openness of things, which I understand. People are upset that their personal projects and home hacks will stop working, which I understand. They should just state that though, and not the "That's it I'm never buying Nest again" type of…

If you're dumping 2-3 hundred dollars on a thermostat, and suddenly it starts losing functionality, not buying another one makes a bit of sense.

Or, relatedly, do you think all those labs that bought PS3's for their ability to act as Linux clusters were wrong to sue the hell out of Sony?

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#200

Post by hedora » Wed, May 08, 2019, 3:52 AM UTC

jredwards wrote: post #69

Literally bought a nest thermostat yesterday. Glad it's still in the box. Wondering what the best alternative is now.

I like my ecobee. The middle priced one seems best. The cheap one doesn't support per room sensors, and the expensive one adds a mic for alexa.