Brain Drain Across the United States • Hacker News Board

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#191

Post by rosemary1337 » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 1:44 PM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #173

jopsen wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further more, the "Idiocracy hypnosis" assumes that: > educational attainment is correlated with intelligence, and children's intelligence is correlated to parental intelligence For this we have no evidence. Quite the opposite in fact -- not that this should stop anyone from enjoying a hilarious movie :) (Just keep in mind that Idiocracy is fictional)

> For this we have no evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Genetics is not the only form of inheritance. You can "inherit" opportunity -- wealthier (and usually more intelligent) people end up in wealthier neighborhoods with better schools and the vicious cycle turns and turns.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#192

Post by rosemary1337 » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 1:45 PM UTC

ccffph wrote: post #155

kgarten wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so change the public education system that more people get a better education? Look at Sweden/Norway etc., or do you argue that their genes are different ;) I mean education in the US sucks ... you need to be rich to give your kids a good one (comparable to what’s free in Europe)

My mother, a poor immigrant, managed to provide me with education just fine in the US. Nothing to do with the funding or programs or systems - its just willpower.

My uncle chain smoked and lived till 90, but I wont argue that smoking extends life. One example does not prove a case.

There are a hundred variables. Sometimes poor people get lucky. Some are pretty and have doors opened to them. Some truly are exceptional. And many are unlucky.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#193

Post by rosemary1337 » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 1:49 PM UTC

shmageggy wrote: post #74

defen wrote: post #51

Now, consider the "meta-brain-drain" of 1) increased assortative mating (people are increasingly more likely to marry someone of similar educational and professional achievement) and 2) college-educated women delaying childbirth and having fewer children than non-college-educated women. The net result is that more educated people tend to have fewer children than the less educated. If we assume educational attainment…

> It seems like we as a society need to figure out a way to make "have children at a reasonable age" not be a low-status move for highly educated / driven / intelligent women. Isn't the obvious answer better maternity leave laws? Ambitious women in the US don't have kids because it fucks their career. The US is literally last among OECD countries, offering zero guaranteed maternity pay [1]. [1] https://money.cnn.com/…

Depending on the state you are in, it is also very bad to have wife earn way less than you -- because it almost prompts divorce (salaries get distributed evenly post divorce, or more when children are involved.) Most of my successful male friends ensure they have high-earning (equal ideally) spouses to ensure there isnt a natural setup for divorce. This favors late childbirth amongst the wealthy.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#194

Post by sctb » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #143

michelpp wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be a learning experience for you both. For example, they could teach you about percentages.

The autism is strong with you.

Since you keep breaking the guidelines after we've asked you to stop we've banned the account.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#195

Post by AvocadoPanic » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

shmageggy wrote: post #74

defen wrote: post #51

Now, consider the "meta-brain-drain" of 1) increased assortative mating (people are increasingly more likely to marry someone of similar educational and professional achievement) and 2) college-educated women delaying childbirth and having fewer children than non-college-educated women. The net result is that more educated people tend to have fewer children than the less educated. If we assume educational attainment…

> It seems like we as a society need to figure out a way to make "have children at a reasonable age" not be a low-status move for highly educated / driven / intelligent women. Isn't the obvious answer better maternity leave laws? Ambitious women in the US don't have kids because it fucks their career. The US is literally last among OECD countries, offering zero guaranteed maternity pay [1]. [1] https://money.cnn.com/…

Because the countries with more leave have higher fertility rates among their native populations and there's evidence of a dose-response relationship?

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#196

Post by js2 » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

smashingfiasco wrote: post #95

myko wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I saw growing up in rural Ohio. Many HS classmates moved out of state and others moved into the major urban centers of Ohio.

I left Toledo last year and moved to the east coast. I was one of maybe three of my friends who was left at that point. It could be a really great state, but the dying lake and dying industrial economy really wrecked the place. The area needs serious investment, but I'm nowhere in the position to contribute back like that, so I made the jump. A thing I like to say is that I am proud that I am from Ohio, but I'm also…

How can you be proud of where you are from? You had no choice in being born there, and as you said it’s a state without a lot of opportunity, and in any case, you didn’t personally contribute to anything to make the place better. So why be proud of that?

I’m from Florida but it’s not something I’m proud or not proud of. I’m proud of my kids. I’m proud of my work. I’m proud of my multi decade relationship with my wife. Those are things to be proud of.

When a class I belong to does something great, I feel I can only be proud to be a member of that class to the extent that I contributed to the great thing and that we worked together to achieve something greater than ourselves. Even then I’m proud that “we did that thing” not that “I’m a member of that group.”

Just a thought. I know many people are proud of where they are from but it’s irrational to me.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#197

Post by asdff » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 3:02 PM UTC

vinayan3 wrote: post #55

zdmc wrote: post #39

Brain Drain is about networking. Why would most give up the opportunity to relocate around the top thinkers in their field? Inhibiting this movement would arguably slow down progress, while making the country more robust (much like the pros/cons associated with most centralization vs. de-centralization topics). People from my hometown (pop. ~7500 in Midwest), do not realize that they are falling behind at an almost e…

> Inhibiting this movement would arguably slow down progress. Don't think the lawmakers want to inhibit movement rather, probably they want to use these conclusions to encourage people to stay. The prosperity brought by progress can be spread across many regions. > People from my hometown (pop. ~7500 in Midwest), do not realize that they are falling behind at an almost exponential rate. Many are working jobs that req…

I'm roughly 5 years out of undergrad and my peers from my midwestern private school are already stratifying. There are people who flock to the coasts or get assigned to some midwestern capital for a few years (but with a well paying job and opportunity to transfer to a larger office), and there are those who stayed behind. More often then not the people left behind either didn't finish college or aren't using their degree, got married at 23 and kids at 24, and/or parading a pyramid scheme on instagram. Its a shame because this was a private school with a strong focus on higher education, lots of kids getting great scholarships to awesome schools, but after college its like these people stop engaging themselves to beef up their resume. It's easy to stagnate in the midwest.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#198

Post by rmdashrfstar » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 3:13 PM UTC

steve_taylor wrote: post #158

jraby3 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe educational attainment is that strongly correlated with intelligence. Their are so many environmental and societal factors at play.

And there are plenty degrees that don’t require intelligence.

A crucial detail that people spouting "free college forever for anyone for any major!" are absolutely living in another dimension where funding a student's degree in civil engineering or chemistry is considered equivalent to the saturated academia-only majors whose only future career prospects are becoming a professor for that same subject matter.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#199

Post by rmdashrfstar » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #178

RandomInteger4 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to connect more with other humans.

I did not get the above information from Mars, but rather from other humans and also from reading and becoming aware of current social topics. I would have thought that it's a pretty well known thing nowadays that motherhood is at least a part-time job and in spite of the best intentions, fathers can only partly compensate for the additional effort. Furthermore, being a mother is not a respected "job", it's neither a…

Motherhood is not a zero sum game where having a child is somehow a loss to the mother that must be compensated by the father. It's a cooperative effort, not a competitive one. Motherhood is not respected only by those who don't respect family, and those who don't value and respect the idea of family, well they're lost souls.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#200

Post by opportune » Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

Pokepokalypse wrote: post #118

opportune wrote: post #47

I’m from Kentucky, live on the west coast, and I cannot at all sympathize with those from there and similar states if they complain about brain drain. If you boast stupid, backwards policies and only give economic opportunities to the well connected, don’t be surprised when the intelligent but not well connected people leave the state. Maybe I’ll retire to my backwards hometown but I make more than double on the west…

Having moved from a rust-belt blue state; who had liberal policies (but. . . just failed to nurture their tech industry like other states did), I moved to California; for a richer employment opportunity. In terms of skills I could learn on the job, there's no way I could have gone nearly as far in my career if I limited myself to the set of employers that were available to me in my hometown. Now, I've moved to a red…

Yeah, I suppose it’s like that in Kentucky too. But I would guess the salaries are even lower than where you’re from, plus the overall anti-intellectual environment just drives ambitious people away. Plus there are basically no venture capitalists, people (especially older people high up in business) are still quite -ist, and there’s a lot of an old boys network with poor education in general. It’s just an unattractive place to do business