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The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

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Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the battery life of Brave comapred to Chrome with an ad-blocker ? How about the more privacy-respecting Firefox with an ad-blocker ?

If everyone uses either of your suggested options the publishers go broke and there is no content to view. Brave has a plan for that. So yes, they are farther along than any idea you have presented.

> If everyone uses either of your suggested options the publishers go broke

While we would lose some valuable content, the unpicking of the advertising monster from the world could only be a positive.

It preys on interpersonal communication and human psychology, and exploits everything good and trustworthy that it can to turn it into more dollars for itself.

Let's move to a post-advertising economy please, by taking back control of our eyeballs.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#193
post #86

My understanding is they’ve been taking money “on behalf of creators” who never signed up and pocketing it. That’s reason enough for me to not use the product. Sounds like it could be construed as fraud. Eich got pretty defensive on Twitter and this whole thing came up here before too [2]. [1] https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2018/12/24/brave-browser-is-c... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18736759

Actually that's not true. An earlier version of the browser let early adopter users direct where Brave's own marketing budget of BAT tokens was sent to, including sites that hadn't yet signed up. If those sites didn't sign up, the tokens would eventually go back into the marketing budget pool of tokens, to be distributed to other sites (not to Brave). That's very different to the mischaraterisation you mention above,…

Actually a comparatively recent version of the browser made all sorts of claims about "Help support this site by donating!", accompanied by pictures of the producer harvested from the site, looking very much like they had a relationship with the producer and were collecting on their behalf.

They only backed down when one of the content producers who had no relationship with them and did not want a relationship with them cried foul.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#194
This idea is very interesting. It reminds me of how YouTube shares their ad revenue with content creators, and that in turn grows YouTube's network and business.

Similarly, the act of web browsing is content creation. It's data creation. Very valuable data.

If users are currently blocking ads in their power, why not entice them back by allowing them to make an appropriate amount of money from the data that only they have the power to give to others? 'Sell your data.'

The more one browsed or shared of their data, the more one would get paid. It's simple business.

It sounds like a model that would bring diversity to the economy.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would advertisers bid higher when this is not the only channel and comes with less targeting and increased fraud potential? Why would users opt-in at all to see ads when they're already blocked? There seems to be missing component of why both sides want to interact through the Brave network.

Website based ads stay blocked. The ads you're viewing are built into the browser which removes any privacy concerns because they aren't sending your personal data to any servers. All personal data stay within the browser and remains there forever or until you delete the browser or format your HDD.

There is still a synchronization of how many seconds you watched the ads. I really doubt that these ads will not be directed to users, depending on their preferences. The same thing facebook and google does. If a company comes and will offer millions of dollars to track users, like what kind of ads a specific user / target group is watching, will brave say no ?

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich founded Mozilla and invented Javascript. He's done far more to promote free expression than to hamper it.

I don't really think JavaScript has done all that much, except made it easier to advertisers/hackers to do nefarious things on users computers with a very poor permission model. In fact, it is prob the #1 used language to limit expression in other countries and track/spy on users. Mozilla wasn't founded by Eich.

You can do tracking perfectly fine without Javascript using just plain old cookies and links. Javascript can't really do anything nefarious "on the users computer" (outside the browser). You can monitor detailed clicks and perhaps steal some data from the origin (which is developer error), that's about it.

The security implications of Javascript are always exaggerated, few people talk about how buggy CSS and HTML parsers or image/video decoding can be. Lots of zeroday exploits there and they keep coming.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you worried he's making your browser Catholic? I've met him, he's a great guy. Just because you might disagree with his political views doesn't mean you should choose your browser based on that difference.

No, I'm worried about the guy whose language has been horribly implemented into ever major browser and allows sites to do just about anything on my computer and gives away all kind of telemetry data without my permission. Sacrificing users' privacy has become the norm due to JavaScript, and I believe it was created primarily for that purpose.

> ... allows sites to do just about anything on my computer

You don't seem to understand how Javascript actually works. It can do just about nothing on your computer. It can't read any data off disk (that the site itself didn't create). It can't read data from other websites, unless the website operator enabled that (in which case it could read that data with just URLs, no scripting required). It can't write data anywhere except into specific storage files. Besides HTTP requests, it can't access any other process, service or resource without asking you for permissions.

Telemetry is something that can be done without Javascript. I can just make any link you activate have some sort of unique ID. Maybe Javascript can make it a bit more detailed, but fundamentally nothing changes.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Brave is better than FF with uBlock (which still displays ads). They did not test with uBlock Origin (which does not display ads). Brave may still do better, but I bet FF with uBlock Origin will do better than FF with uBlock.

The text does specify uBlock Origin, it seems they just shortened it in the graphs.

Convenient?

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brave doesn't need advertisers though, it needs users. Once it has users then advertisers need Brave. I don't see how Brave has to win over advertisers at all, they'll come around when Brave can offer some non-insignificant amount of money to them.

Advertisers have several supply paths to inventory and what gets chosen is a complicated series of decisions. Brave is just not very enticing. Having a large user base isn't useful if there isn't effective delivery and performance. It's always possible to get the low-end performance marketers because they'll buy anything if it works but it won't be good quality. Also the current trade of content for ads makes sense.…

> Brave is just not very enticing.

Sure, but folks I know use it because it has other utilities than just block ads (like use less power, for instance) whilst retaining the compatibility that comes with being based on Chromium.

> Also the current trade of content for ads makes sense.

When the rate of folks blocking ads keeps increasing, does it though, in the long run?

> When it's opt-in, I fail to see why users would enable ads if they can get the content for free anyway. And if the ads are all low-end spam then I definitely don't see why they would choose them.

I hope you do realise the number of ifs and buts in your assumptions?

> It's a very tough 3-way marketplace to bootstrap where the user has all of the control and none of the incentive.

I realise that you are intimately familiar with the industry, but it takes a substantial rethink to overhaul something as entrenched as the online ad business.

There's novelty to Brave's approach, I don't think anyone can deny that. Browsers are gateway to the web, equally how Google (homepage) is, and folks are right to take that market on, instead of taking the giants like Facebook and Google at their own game.

I would like to refer you to how telegram has replaced browsers for most folks I know (they literally use it to search memes, videos, photos, links); and how WhatsApp has replaced email. The ads would be where content is. If browsers increasingly act as arbitrators of that content, then they're best placed to monetize it, as well, imo.

It is another matter for folks who simply detest ads, they're not intended users Brave is targeting, but some folks do feel guilt blocking them and wouldn't mind a middle ground. Also, you must realise that a large portion of the internet don't use any form of ad-blockers whatsoever, and when they stumble on Brave (because it is great for battery life and other features), they'd be more than happy to keep seeing ads that aren't all encompassing and privacy respecting, I'm sure.

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