tl;dr: shitty graphics hardware vendors who don't care about Linux support.
Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
191–200 of 259 posts
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#192I've been using swaywm on my laptop (XPS 13) with XWayland disabled for a few months now and have had very few problems with it. As far as I can tell Firefox works perfectly, except for some very strange behavior if I try to enable hardware acceleration. I love how easy it is to configure via config files, external monitors work great, scaling on HiDPI displays has been totally painless. My days off fiddling with xor…
Without hardware acceleration doesn't watching video in the browser pretty much destroy your battery life and use most of your cpu time?
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Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#193Did beos and haiku use X? I think not, then how do their graphics systems work?
Direct to hardware. There is a framebuffer driver that IIRC uses VESA primitives, and a few other more generic drivers with bit blitting and OpenGL support.
Has anybody tried porting that system over to Linux?
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#194I enjoyed the article but this quote jumped out at me: "What took thirty years to build isn't going to be replaced in a day." This was in regard to replacing X11 with Wayland. It's funny because it would be closer to the truth to say that X11 took 5 years to build, and for the last 25 years everyone has been trying to get off of it, but in the meantime piling more stuff on top of it since that's easier than starting…
> since that's easier than starting from scratch That is not quite accurate, although it isn't far off. More accurately; the design mistakes that make/made X11 terrible were being enforced at the driver level. Take the fact that for many years X was being run as root on linux. Horrific state of affairs for security. Everyone knows it is bad. Some bright spark tries to write a new window system that runs as an unprivi…
>That eventually got fixed with the Intel/AMD graphics graphics open sourcing 2008-2018; at the moment X is becoming a very thin comparability layer for most people and a mandatory pain for Nvidia users as far as I know.
It's even better than that now. For me no part of X is running as root. Last I checked the only reason anyone had X as root (other than driver issues) was if they were running a graphical login manager). Since the login manager has to be up and running before any users are logged in, and likely requires X, it makes since that it's got to run in a privileged context, and works most easily as root. In my case I just use xinit to start my graphical sessions after I've logged directly into a (getty) terminal.
I think supposedly GDM can do rootless X, but I haven't tested that.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
I bring up remote Emacs frames (from existing sessions, using emacsclient) over ssh forwarded X11 all the time. I prefer this method over tty-only because of the better keyboard support (tty can't pass through all the modifiers or even all the ctrl combinations), image support and clipboard integration. (better colors used to be another reason but less so now that we have 24 bit color support in tty Emacs) With the f…
You can also expose the Emacs server socket and allow a local native GUI emacsclient to connect to it.
It would be amazing if it worked that way! But I don't think that it does. :(
emacsclient only tells the Emacs session it is talking to to create a new frame, either on an X11 display or on the tty where emacsclient is running. After that emacs does all the work, emacsclient just waits for emacs to tell it that it's done, it takes no active role in actually displaying stuff.
I would love to be wrong on this, please tell me if I am! I would love it if Emacs actually had its own remote display protocol.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is zero reason to suppose that the reason people don't use linux is X11.
Sure there is, starting with the difficulty in setting up, getting it to output the correct resolution with your monitor, correct refresh rate, etc..
this hasn't been an issue in almost 20 years.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
These claims are blown out of proportion and/or simply untrue. Screen tearing: both Intel and AMD have hardware-backed "TearFree" buffering to prevent tearing. Bad performance: citation required - in my experience, Xorg is way faster. Touchscreen support - in most cases just works out of the box thanks to libinput. No HiDPI support for different scales per monitor - simply wrong - this is trivial with xrandr.
I still find tearing to be problematic I have a machine with a supported Radeon card (open-source driver), another machine with a supported nvidia card (binary blob driver), and another two machines using different intel onboard graphics chips (open-source driver) the radeon and the intel (both drivers which work with it) have issues putting out a stable jitterless 60fps without tearing (with tearfree on, and various…
That's your video driver's fault. Not X's.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#198Last time I coded for the Raspberry Pi, gen 2, I used Wayland with Sway on Arch Linux ARM. Fast and more responsive than the standard DE provided by Raspbian. Was running Sway on Raspbian but needed access to the latest version of Go.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you tried tramp? I routinely use it to edit files on systems without emacs installed. Also you can edit files belonging to root, etc.
Yes, I use tramp as well for all those things. The remote Emacs session is more for everything else I do with Emacs, mail, chat, M-x shell sessions, dev sessions in progress with language servers running, maybe a debugger. I use tty emacsclient plenty too (including from my phone) and I could certainly manage without remote X11 and perhaps even without EXWM (ouch) but not looking forward to the prospect of losing it,…
> I use tty emacsclient plenty too (including from my phone)
oh my.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been reading through the Vulkan spec, which is in way similar in that OpenGL has been extended since its introduction in 1992 with more and more features to support new graphics capabilities as they evolved. I've seen Vulkan called the successor to OpenGL, but reading the spec it seems more like the end game for raster graphics card programming. OpenGL 4.0 was released in 2010, and since then changes have been i…
Photoshop pretty much got it right a couple decades or so ago, and they've just been porting it, smearing on new lipstick, and figuring out how to make more money with it ever since.
Photoshop has had at least two massive functional changes; layers in 3.0 and non-destructive editing in CS3.
And probably one huge philosophical change, given that it was originally designed for displaying grayscale images.