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FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

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Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donating a building is a payment to the university . The university then gets to decide to admit your child in return. It may not be meritocratic, but it's not corrupt (except perhaps insofar as by pretending the exchange is a donation, the university and donor manage to cheat the taxman). The donor is simply paying the university to provide a service that they have every right to offer for money. It also benefits ot…

> It also benefits other students, which is why the universities take the deals in the first place. This is a little overgenerous. > In this case, we're talking about bribery of specific employees to act against the interests of their employer. That's simply corruption. Perhaps. What crime is it? I went and looked at the charges that were filed, here: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admis... (K…

> Perhaps. What crime is it?

When the mails are used in the course, the federal offenses that appear to be involved from the charges in this case are “mail fraud” and “honest services mail fraud”; the bribing of the officials would probably also be criminal frauds (against the university) under State law.

> It doesn't look to me like paying an admissions officer to admit your child is a crime at all.

Then why are people being charged with (or pleading guilty to) criminal fraud (or patterns of racketeering activity where the concrete racketeering activity includes criminal frauds) for doing that, conspiring to do it, or facilitating other people doing it? Yes, the federal government doesn't have jurisdiction over mere fraud, so it's the use of the mail that is key to the federal charges on this case, but the basis of the charges here (other than the money laundering and tax fraud related to concealing the quantity and source of the profits from the main scheme) are all about bribing school and test administrators.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#192
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also benefits other students, which is why the universities take the deals in the first place. This is a little overgenerous. > In this case, we're talking about bribery of specific employees to act against the interests of their employer. That's simply corruption. Perhaps. What crime is it? I went and looked at the charges that were filed, here: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admis... (K…

Tortious Interference might apply in the case of "bribing an employee to violate their employment contract" wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference

Tortious interference is a tort, not a crime. It's right in the name...

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#193

This might be more overt than the usual form, but how does this differ from donating a new building, department, or scholarship fund and subsequently getting your kid in? My mother did well in the Masters program at Stanford and I would have likely gotten in if she donated a couple million dollars but she didn’t and I didn’t (despite getting an invitation a year after accepting enrollment at another university). It’s…

No, you're right. But the ultra rich have "loopholes" since donating a building or a stadium to a college is not against the law, and a backroom handshake deal can still be made to donate millions without it going on the record as an exchange for all your kids getting accepted into that school. Same difference in that sitting presidents don't ask for and don't get paid $millions for giving speeches during office - - yet the record shows that almost ALL of them arranged deals during their presidency in exchange for favorable legislation, so that the minute they walked out of the white house they were jetting off to give these million dollar "payback" speeches.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#194

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

Haha, that is legitimately what's going through my mind now. My parents were nowhere near wealthy enough to make these sized bribes, but doesn't stop me from wondering...It's similar to reading about 'back of the milk carton' child abduction stories.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#195
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if you find this out, but worked your ass off and got straight As during your degree? Were your parents giving you unknown help then, too? Can you ask them? Where does it end?

Like, they tried so hard on your behalf. They spent so much money on you. They really did it out of the goodness of their hearts and in love of their child, in their own twisted way. And now? I mean, it all blew up in their faces. All their best intentions made everything just so much more horrible for their children. They'll never wash this off. My lord, not even Aristophanes himself could write a tragedy on this sc…

>> They'll never wash this off.

I wouldn't go that far. If I ever interacted with these unaware children, I would go out of my way to not hold it against them. They did nothing wrong.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#196
post #187

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

The kids who only got in with some SAT fudging, like Felicity Huffman's daughter, were probably just below requirements to get into some of these universities. I read somewhere else that USC has so many applicants that if you don't have a 3.8 GPA with a 1400 SAT you are going to be the odd man out. So if you need 400 SAT points to get there, you probably aren't going to do it with just good prep (which usually only n…

One of them was struggling and needed help to actually fill out the application form. Someone ended up doing it for her.

If you're not smart enough to fill out a form - imagine how you'll go during study.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that the college you attend, especially for undergrad, has relatively little bearing on your life as a whole. In most cases yes. But when we're talking about elite colleges, it has significant bearing. Living in the dorm with a future CEO may be helpful in your future job search, and if you go to an elite college, you have a much better chance of having done that. Going to Stanford or Berkeley or MIT…

My point is not that going to a top college isn't a great opportunity. My point is that for someone who could have gotten into Stanford, the actual admission it isn't defining. Someone with that sort of intelligence and drive will find a way to meet the future CEO, get a great job and so on regardless of whether they attend. I went to Stanford. I love my undergrad. But I also have faced plenty of rejection and advers…

You really believe that a person with the same intelligence and drive who goes to say Stanford vs a mid tier state university will have the same outcomes in life? Unless this person has an exceptional will, this will never be the case. The kind of network that you will probably build at Stanford without noticing is vastly superior to the one at a mid tier state university. You probably personally know many people who've started up XYZ company, work for FAANG, top hedge funds, scientists etc... No one is saying that life is easy for a Stanford graduate, i'm sure any ambitious person will face a ton of rejection in their life time regardless of where they went to school but a lot of doors will open for you in your life time just because you went to Stanford vs going to UC Irvine.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#198
US high school senior here. Made a throwaway for this.

Seeing this makes my blood boil. Not only is it essentially an open secret that the admissions process actively discriminates against Asians and other high-achieving ethnic groups--and gives a massive leg up to legacies, children of donors, etc.--these people thought they were good enough, by virtue of their wealth, to bribe and cheat their way into these top universities (and some of them, honestly, shouldn't even need cheating to get into!)

I've worked my tail off for the past four years (if not more) to weasel my way past the racially biased admissions office, and now I see this--brazen corruption from the elite whose egos ride on their trust-fund children's college acceptances.

After my personal experience and now this, I've come to a conclusion: the college admissions process in the US is fundamentally broken. This case isn't just an aberration--it's a pattern.

I shudder to imagine just what my children will have to go through.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#199
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They commited textbook fraud. You can take a look at the charges for yourself. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admis...

Exactly what I was looking for, thank you. Weird that they have so many of them on "mail fraud." That part confuses me more than it enlightens me.

"mail fraud" is a catch-all charge that most fraud cases fall under. Think of it like a fraud * wildcard

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#200
post #173

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

And what if you find this out, but worked your ass off and got straight As during your degree? Were your parents giving you unknown help then, too? Can you ask them? Where does it end?

When you are born into privilege (kid of a celebrity), you are afforded the best private tutors and academic resources that money can buy during you academic career, starting from childhood. Assuming you are born with a neurotypical brain, you are at an advantage over your less wealthy peers from day one whether you perceive it or not.
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