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Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

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Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#191

Post by unabst »

gboudrias wrote: post #180
unabst wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know he uses mostly weak papers? That is an overgeneralization. And why would he? Which papers should he have chosen? And I never said all scientists agree. Typical straw man. But what I will say is there are plenty of climate change deniers that claim to be scientists.

You literally said if he offends me I have issues or don't understand him. This disregards the notion that you can understand someone as a fellow scientist and be offended by their indefensible interpretations. Sorry but it's not all black or white, and you describing the issue as such makes you more of a zealot than a scientist.

Why would you be offended by the science of a scientist? Let alone their opinion? Why does he offend you so much? I would put this person in the "has issues" category. Not saying that is bad. But it doesn't make you right. Instead, we should focus on the issue. What about what offends you so much? Btw there are plenty of videos of him confronting exactly this.

Nothing is indefensible. Challenge him all you want.

His views are his views. Most of his lectures are about other people's work. When he draws conclusions his logic is sound and his premises are transparent. Talk, think, debate.

Why hate? He continues to help so many people.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#192

Post by el_cujo »

QuamStiver wrote: post #84

The food analogy does not work and is a good example of people talking outside their area of expertise. Dieting on weekdays and "pigging out" once on pizza (what's wrong with pizza?) on the weekend would actually be fine. There is no evidence that food is like sleep and needs to be balanced on a daily basis.

Yeah I was a little confused by reading this. I know several people who underwent dramatic weight loss but still had cheat days a few times a month, I don't really think that's uncommon. I mean I'm sure it slows your progress compared to not "cheating", but I've seen enough success stories to know it doesn't completely undo everything (depending on how bad you cheat I guess?)

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#193

Post by Folcon »

Are there any good suggestions for what to do if "just get more sleep" isn't really working? These sort of articles really frustrate me, their suggestions always feel fairly weak.

I have difficulties falling asleep and a little bit of apnea and getting a grip on how to get consistent "gold standard" sleep is really frustrating.

I've tried forcing myself to sleep early using sleep meds, which doesn't really seem to work well or be a really good long term solution. Cutting coffee and/or alcohol for periods which doesn't seem to have any significant effects.

Irritatingly the most successful solution I found for a period was movement, as in someone driving me in a car on a long drive, I'd fall asleep in seconds into a deep sleep. Except that doesn't seem to happen on a train or taxi (not sure why yet), and it would be problematic working out how to do that routinely.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#194

Post by Frondo »

unabst wrote: post #184
Frondo wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he is such a stellar scientist, I'm sure there are quite a few other scientists building off his work -- I'm sure he's advancing some fields of study, if he is as sharp as you say. Is there a list of people building on the work of Jordan Peterson? I'd like to see it.

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=wL1F22UAAAAJ&hl=en See it. You could have just Google it.

To spare others the work of digging, the highest-cited paper where Jordon Peterson is listed as first author is the 1990 paper, "Acute alcohol intoxication and cognitive functioning," at 321 citations.

Important work, I'm sure, but not what I'd call groundbreaking; I think the effects of drinking on cognition have been somewhat well-known, at least anecdotally, for at least a few thousand years, give or take.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#195

Post by cmuguythrow »

mruts wrote: post #105
lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

This used to be me. I now realize that the reason for my grogginess was that I was totally dehydrated after my 10+ hr sleeping marathon. I now sleep with a water bottle and try to drink half of it before going to bed. When I do this I find that I will naturally wake up after about 8.5 hrs, drink the remaining half of the bottle, fall back asleep for 30 min, and then wake up feeling great. Wonder if this could work for you too

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#196

Post by OJFord »

kabacha wrote: post #136
Zitrax wrote: post #77

A recent Swedish study[1] following 43 880 people over 13 years mentions in the summary: "Possibly, long weekend sleep may compensate for short weekday sleep." [1]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jsr.12712

Wow, what a contrast to this study of 36 people. Personally I feel that it's a bunch of placebo but a bunch of people I know swear by it. Nevertheless it's much harder to convince people to do what's more efficient compared to what _feels_ better when it comes to sleep. I for one feel much better if I wake up 7am sharp every day but it doesn't not feel that way naturally.

It's not necessarily a placebo though right? I think 'catch-up' just isn't very well defined.

I can be short of sleep and feeling awful each day of the working week, and then sleep in at the weekend and feel good that day relative to the last five.

Have I 'caught-up'? Or does catching up mean negating long-term side-effects of sleep deprivation?

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#197

Post by rhacker »

I don't know about "weekend" catch-up sleep being different than other kinds of catch up sleep, but I just had a session where I pretty much got 1 hour of sleep in a 24 hour period. The following day I slept 10 hours. Now I know that's not exactly catch up, but I hardly ever sleep more than 7. It's hard for me to sleep more than 7. So if catch up is a lie, why is the only time I am able to sleep 10 if I had a missed day?

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#198

Post by bughunter12 »

Ragnarork wrote: post #116
c1as wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia has had their chance. No one believes "studies" about personal life choices any more if the results conflict with each other every 5 years. It's just publication pressure (or worse, as other commenters have hinted at).

> Academia has had their chance Oh, so what should we go to now in order to try to expand our knowledge about this? What are you suggesting?

How about defunding the fields that study "personal life choices"? The quoted part seems to have been missed by the lynch mob.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#199

Post by ip26 »

lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

It's also not compatible with small children.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#200

Post by hhjinks »

rhacker wrote: post #197

I don't know about "weekend" catch-up sleep being different than other kinds of catch up sleep, but I just had a session where I pretty much got 1 hour of sleep in a 24 hour period. The following day I slept 10 hours. Now I know that's not exactly catch up, but I hardly ever sleep more than 7. It's hard for me to sleep more than 7. So if catch up is a lie, why is the only time I am able to sleep 10 if I had a missed…

Catching up on sleep is usually said in the context of "I'll sleep more in the weekend to counteract the negative effects of sleeping 4 hours a night during the week". That is not how it works, since catchup sleep won't really do anything to reverse the effects of prolonged lack of sleep. You certainly will sleep longer when more tired, but it will not counteract the long term negative effects of sleeping too little.
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