The product looks really really nice. Wish it had better accessibility, though - from what I can tell, everything is a div :/
No links, buttons, or anything (that I saw in my 5 min of checking it out).
Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
191–200 of 489 posts
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#192Has anybody compared it with coda.io?
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a reason nobody really does this: there's just no money in it. Nylas mail is a good example of this: it offered the ability to self-run it and pay them for the license, but nobody really did. I wonder what they would need to charge to make it feasible? $1000 a year? It makes me pretty sad, but it's just such a distraction for a company of Notion's size and stage.
Bitwarden offers self-hosting as one of their paid perks (Docker image and documentation included), in addition to a free tier. It may not be viable as the only business model, but I appreciate that they cater to the small number of people that will make use of it and I imagine the token of goodwill does something for the product as a whole.
Bitwarden is a niche application which handles very sensitive data. Value is created when it is hosted internally by a security sensitive organization.
When it comes to business and productivity applications the situation is very different. Many IT admins are tasked with moving to cloud (or other outsourced) solutions. When you see posts you have to realize you, or I, who value autonomy and control may not be the expected customer of these solutions.
To reduce the economics further:
* Startups like this have a product which may not have a complete market fit or reknown. They can't build something that's most likely to stick e.g. a required mail system because a couple of cloud products own the market. Therefore, they move up the productivity stack to team and document collaboration.
* Since they aren't a mature product and will likely change it considerably in the short-term, possibly "firing" customers as they search for a bigger market, they'll need their product to keep up. If they host it, then they can change it end-to-end.
* Any time you release a product that gets deployed on-prem it's virtually impossible to get people to update in a timely manner. Even if you decide to provide an on-prem version to a potentially huge customer, the enterprise sales cycle means that there is a risk your product will have changed before it gets deployed, but some person/process will prevent you get updated to the latest version as they advocate for a competitor.
* Worse, they like the old version and want to stay on it. How do you support these on-prem customers? They liked the value at your cloud pricing, but the cost to support on-prem customers can be much larger.
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#194If you like Notion but are looking for something open source, similarly polished and more wiki-focused then this will be up your street - http://getoutline.com
We've been building it for 2 years, happy to answer questions.
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
How good is the offline support? Edit: After testing, seems not too bad. Reconciles non-conflicting edits just fine. But apparently, in the iOS app, search doesn't work in offline mode! Edit 2: It seems like "attachments" (files like PDFs, and also images) are not stored offline, either. In the iOS app, clicking on a file or image brings up an S3 URL inside an embedded web browser.
Akshay from Notion here. Better offline support is included in the next release. Coming very soon!
Thanks. Will it include offline attachments?
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
(disclaimer: I'm building something similar) Why is it every time something like Notion is mentioned, there is always someone who wants "local, self-hosted, Markdown"? Just build it yourself. This clearly shows you have no understanding of the product at hand. Notion is so incredibly powerful that Markdown doesn't even scratch the surface here.
I'd prefer a local or self-hosted product because when the innevitable "incredible journey" blog post comes out, I don't want to have to try and migrate everything to a new service. If I've paid for a product, I can at least keep using it as-is when the company goes under.
The problem is that economic reality doesn't allow for the market to clear for such product.
In other words: you're not willing to pay enough for such a feature to make anyone capable of building it make it for you.
There just aren't enough people like you to support self-hosted $4/month product and you're not willing to spend $2000/month for self-hosted version.
So your options are not using the product at all or using hosted, incredibly cheap, version.
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
On-prem enterprise software does make money. You still charge money for it either way. A few examples: Github Enterpise, JIRA, etc. And notion doesn't need to see their users data to charge money for a service. They could engineer it to be E2E encrypted for the group and not have the ability to see their customers data even with a subpoena.
Enterprise is the key word here. Much more companies care about having control over their infrastructure. As for Notion, I guess even on Hacker News only a small share of users would care enough.
It's possibly something many of us should care more about, though.
Suppose your company handles a fair bit of confidential information, and some of that information ends up in Notion as part of your general project management workflow. Now you've got to worry about Notion experiencing a data breach, and whether or not that breach could get you in hot water with your clients, or even into legal trouble.
With on-prem options, you can gain a little extra confidence, because it can all live behind a firewall instead of being directly exposed to the Internet at large.
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
(disclaimer: I'm building something similar) Why is it every time something like Notion is mentioned, there is always someone who wants "local, self-hosted, Markdown"? Just build it yourself. This clearly shows you have no understanding of the product at hand. Notion is so incredibly powerful that Markdown doesn't even scratch the surface here.
Friends don't let friends use web apps. Aside from privacy concerns, relying on someone else's server functioning and being forced to use whatever the newest "improved" version are all strikes against em. Who needs another login collected by someone else (so trustworthy) that you fill with credentials that will be stolen in a hack revealed a few years down the line? There's never any real consequences for service pro…
Notion doesn't store password.
You can either log-in with Google account (which you most likely already have) or via 2fa mechanism where they send an expiring login link to your e-mail address.
There are no password and therefore nothing to hack.
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#199I use Notion for everything now - work and personal. The blocks are super smart. I crowdsourced a bunch of workflows and product suggestions on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TZhongg/status/1067234359915163648 all I do is talk about Notion with my friends tbh. if anyone wants free $10 credit, here ya go: https://www.notion.so/?r=02c3100209a54c48b22e19771ba4c916
I expect posting a referral link on Hacker News to be frowned upon.
Re: Notion – All-in-one workspace for notes, tasks, wikis, and databases
#200I've tried Notion (I've tried most PIMs since 2003) but it didn't fit my brain / what I wanted to do with it. Not enough structure yet too constraining. The closest I've found is Workflowy, but it's just that bit too basic. I store all web clippings in Evernote and hope to find what I want one day. I bookmark heavily into an online service, and wish my tag vocabulary was better constrained (but full text search helps…
I've used Workflowy since its inception (2010), but recently switched over to Notion. For my use case, it's worked perfectly and I haven't looked back.