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Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

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Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#191

Post by danso »

mips_avatar wrote: post #186
danso wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why is Boring declining to take part in the EIR process?

You’d probably have to ask Elon Musk. I also haven’t read the lawsuit so I don’t know what specifically the homeowners wanted investigated. California law basically gives veto power to any homeowner for anything, so why bother trying to be innovative there in the first place? I think the software industry only evolved there because nobody had figured out how to regulate a bit yet.

California software companies are still subject to the same taxes and standard of state employment laws.

California's high speed rail has been subject to the same scrutiny and legal threats. Was Boring/Musk completely ignorant of well-known past precedent and hurdles when they claimed they could build a transportation project for much cheaper? As recently as 1 month ago, Musk still thought and publicly claimed that the tunnel "opens Dec 10": https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1054164838430064640

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#192

Post by CalRobert »

leesec wrote: post #159
CalRobert wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the best of my knowledge, you are correct that every US city is horrible in this regard. This was not by accident. To your comment "If we know it works how come no one has done it? " - 1) We have done it. Amsterdam fought like hell for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o . Now they have one of the finest cities in the world in which to move about. Copenhagen at rush hour handles loads of people well bec…

There are less people in all of Denmark than in LA. Not even half. Novel solutions will be needed. Much less area in Copenhagen than LA as well. Also I really don't think this a resource drain. Before Elon there was basically no effort, and so if there was no Elon there would still be no effort. Also I would be shocked if there were more than like 150 people at Boring company.

Much less area than Copenhagen because LA is mostly car infrastructure. Lines on a map don't make a city.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#193

Post by [deleted] »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #75
macintux wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s some line to be drawn between acceptable abrasiveness and calling critics pedophiles.

What if said critic is a paedophile or he had a valid reason to believe it such as being told it by lots of locals? If someone is a paedophile, I think to call them it, should be perfectly acceptable.

[deleted]

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#194

Post by quotemstr »

sschueller wrote: post #21
leesec wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I cannot help but get frustrated even though I know I shouldn't. How are people rooting against this person? Do they not want space exploration/green technology/incredible cars/transportation innovation/globally accessible satellite internet/self driving cars/etc? I don't even really understand where the hate comes from, because he missed a few deadlines, because he dreams big? I'm sure his critics have mis…

The issues is not that we don't want these things. People cheer for NASA and you hardly ever read anything negative about those missions. Elon is why people complain. He rubs a lot of people the wrong way with this tweets and attitude. You can be diplomatic and move things forward or you can be abrasive like Elon and also move forward.

When you move things forward, you produce change, and this change inevitably bothers people who are comfortable in the existing order. These people will attack the source of the change, claiming that he's insensitive and undiplomatic or whatever merely because he doesn't let the minority that would be bothered by inconvenient change block that change.

Consequently, anyone who accomolishes something meaningful will be called a jerk. You can't do meaningful work while being universally well-liked. The world doesn't work that way.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#195

Post by drb91 »

xkjkls wrote: post #145
drb91 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I associate NIMBYs with going against things that improve a neighborhood. I don’t think that includes all types of resistance.

The problem is NIMBYs think that no things improve the neighborhood . Everyone would say they are for things that improve the neighborhood, but some are reflexively anti-change.

Well, that may be true, but there is good reason to doubt the effects of adding more roads to LA: demand will grow to meet capacity, which I am sure Musk is aware of given that he runs a car company.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#196

Post by mips_avatar »

danso wrote: post #191
mips_avatar wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d probably have to ask Elon Musk. I also haven’t read the lawsuit so I don’t know what specifically the homeowners wanted investigated. California law basically gives veto power to any homeowner for anything, so why bother trying to be innovative there in the first place? I think the software industry only evolved there because nobody had figured out how to regulate a bit yet.

California software companies are still subject to the same taxes and standard of state employment laws. California's high speed rail has been subject to the same scrutiny and legal threats. Was Boring/Musk completely ignorant of well-known past precedent and hurdles when they claimed they could build a transportation project for much cheaper? As recently as 1 month ago, Musk still thought and publicly claimed that t…

I think Elon Musk knows that if there's something big to be gained for society the laws can be modified. For instance Tesla only worked because the Obama administration kind of bent the laws of economics by securing a huge loan to the company.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#197

Post by mips_avatar »

yellowapple wrote: post #190
mips_avatar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of want to send these ‘environmentalists’ pieces of asphalt because that’s what their actions here are going to cause the entire planet to be covered in.

It's like how a lot of environmentalists seem to be opposed to nuclear despite it being statistically safer than even solar (let alone wind or hydro) and much better for the environment than even natural gas (let alone coal). By letting perfect be the enemy of good, they're leaving the environment worse off.

The people I know want America to take the economic hit of renewables, bring electricity prices to $0.25 per kWh so that we can show the world our moral superiority. It would limit our economy, but it's possible. The problem is that developing countries are adding fossil fuel power plants so fast that it would dwarf our reductions. I don't know if nuclear is the solution. But America needs to be bold enough to try.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#198

Post by zjaffee »

quotemstr wrote: post #164
zjaffee wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't block it on any known Environmental grounds, CEQA exists to insure major infrastructure projects evaluate many options and attempt to find the most environmentally friendly option. In this particular case, it was almost certainly not building a low capacity tunnel for small vehicles and cars, but to build the already planned metro rail line without having to add engineering complexity to maneuver around a…

> In this particular case, it was almost certainly not building a low capacity tunnel for small vehicles and cars, but to build the already planned metro rail line without having to add engineering complexity to maneuver around a privately owned and built tunnel. A metro rail line can't transport a car, so point-to-point transit is out, as is any semblance of privacy. Why are you so quick to devalue these advantages?…

Because the purpose of mass transit is to increase throughput, a super highway tunnel for cars will just lead to more congested streets around the entrance the same way wider highways have done.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#199

Post by gamblor956 »

mips_avatar wrote: post #180
gamblor956 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stated maximum capacity of the Elontunnel is sufficiently low that it would have had minimal, if any, positive effect on congestion and smog.

It’s a test tunnel, you would get the improvement when more are made.

Sorry, no, I was referring to the capacity of the finished tunnel, which isn't meaningful better.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#200

Post by dragonwriter »

jerf wrote: post #19

It seems sort of shortsighted to block a tunneling company on environmental grounds. In the long term, cheap tunneling would be fantastic for the environment. Most of what we consider the biosphere is on the surface, and to the extent that there's life in the tunneled area, by volume tunneling isn't going to be significant for a long time. (Volume is much larger than surface; in general, areal intuition fails miserab…

> It seems sort of shortsighted to block a tunneling company on environmental grounds.

They didn't block a tunneling company on environmental grounds. A tunneling company gave up rather than risk even having an environmental evaluation of a potential tunnel.

> It seems sort of shortsighted to block a tunneling company on environmental grounds.

Probably. But this wasn't about cheap tunneling technology, it was about a specific proposed tunnnel.

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