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Hire people who aren’t proven

leonardofed.io

191–200 of 460 posts

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#191

I recommend "Why Employees Are Always a Bad Idea" by Chuck Blakeman. It describes how to build a company where everyone is a stakeholder and not a child that needs constanct watching and stupid rules in order to function. No titles, no working hours, unlimited vacation time, you hire the whole person (not just the BS smile at work part). You work together because you want to find and make meaning. No CVs and skills a…

Great idea, but then couldn't they replace you and what you're doing (since they won't be your employee they'll be business partners) ?

No, it was the unique combination of people that made the company. Once two key people left, everything fell apart.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#192
post #149

There's a critical kernel of truth here that I want to point out: work-sample tests. The longer I spend building teams, the more I am convinced: there are people who do WSTs as a way to qualify applicants, and there are people who just aren't serious about hiring. It's easy to write a WST for simple things, like "can you literally write a computer program that does this trivial straightforward thing". It's hard to wr…

One sec. Just need to login to our CMS to update our tag line to "Woven: We're trying to unfuck developer hiring"

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#193
post #45

I think tons of experienced people that love programming moved on because of the "Google Interview". You got all this experience and love making stuff for users, but you don't know the "insert trick of the week" to solve the latest "elite" programming question. Bye Bye. No more jobs for you.

Asking people questions that only come up in college and not in the field is ageism plain and simple. They’re selecting for recent graduates.

Could be lots of reasons for that. They’re hungry, they don’t know what’s impossible (occasionally an asset, often a source of aggravation), or that they don’t know when to say no.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#194

Lately what I have been trying out is telling people: if you want to come for an interview can you prepare a small presentation of one of the data structures that you know about or like, or ideally hash tables (as they cover wide range of topics). If a person than comes in for the interview in about a week from when he is told this and can’t present that DS to some depth I don’t bother to go on with much longer inter…

Well, I'd assume you wouldn't want a presentation on something as trivial as a linked list, and try to study up on R-trees or some such thing. And with my luck, you'd end up being the world's foremost expert on R-trees...

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#195

Lately what I have been trying out is telling people: if you want to come for an interview can you prepare a small presentation of one of the data structures that you know about or like, or ideally hash tables (as they cover wide range of topics). If a person than comes in for the interview in about a week from when he is told this and can’t present that DS to some depth I don’t bother to go on with much longer inter…

Well to take a step back and evaluate the question of "who needs ds" - most answers to typical problems come down to using a hash table or an array... or some trickery of both. So... I can see this question as being useful.

I am afraid that I am missing the point of why YOU chose this approach if you can't answer this question. No offense to you. It seems like you came from the approach that if people want this job they will do this thing. Seems noble and with good intentions.

But DS is much more than that. It is the basics. The definition. The building blocks. Lots of reasons why you would want to ask about it.

I've actually been asked something similar prior to working at IBM. My caveat was that this question was asked in the interview without any preparation.

However, I can see how some people would find this challenging. It may seem like a lot of work for some people. Especially if you worked with some engineers that freak out when such a task is presented. If they don't have an outline, a set criteria, the protocols, previous samples, and the such. then you will have a bad time. Such people approach problems very systematically. As long as your task is clearly defined and has such things, then it should be easier in theory.

The people who aren't phased then won't be phased. The people that may see this as challenging shouldn't also be phased. Finally, considering monetary incentives for such additional work could smooth out some issues. You could pose such things as an investment and a risk mitigation strategy to your elders.

Anywho, these are some thoughts.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The passion/craftsman culture changed when we started selling our souls for the next ad-click or personal information collection system. While it might have seemed good back then, we now have a massively cobbled-together web ecosystem. I know it's a cheap shot, but those same passionate people built the crap we have today. I don't think it speaks very highly of that time or the merits of passion. (many individuals ha…

It’s an unpopular viewpoint on HN, but I truly don’t believe that using personal information to deliver targeted advertisements is immoral, provided that 1) a best effort is made to make people fully aware of what information is being collected and how it is being used, and 2) a best effort is made at keeping that data safe from being leaked. I just genuinely don’t understand how if someone gives personal consent to…

I could agree in theory, it's just that 1 & 2 don't happen in the real world. (Outside of EU?) There are no incentives, responsibility, or consequences for folks once data has been acquired.

It's like the friend that swears they will pay you back if you would just lend them a substantial amount of money. Said enthusiasm drops 95% once the transaction has completed.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing software development in high school requires a computer (even a ~$400 that is shared with the family is sufficient), interest, and time (so one can spend hours required reading tutorials/watching videos). Basically, nothing too much out of the reach of your average teenager -- with the exception of interest/dedication to the art. I grew up in the country, got the internet in grade 9 on a 28.8 connection over…

Yeah, I'm a millenial even and I know people my age who didn't have a computer with internet (at home) until they went to college. People really underestimate how insulated some rural communities are, especially impoverished ones. Most of my family still lives in appalachia, and when I visit there are a surprising number of places where you barely get phone signals from any major networks. DSL and cable internet is s…

Yeah, I'm a millennial, and it was one of my happiest days when I moved to a big city and got a 512 kbps ADSL line.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#198
> 3. Will this candidate get along with coworkers?

I think this 'getting along' is often misinterpreted as become best friends. I think a better way to state this question is

'Will this candidate be able to have successful working relationships?'

There is no reason you can't have a wide variety of people -- that would never choose to hang out with another-- working successfully together.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#199
post #6

I think hiring has become more difficult now that programming has been discovered as a well paying mainstream career. When I started in the 90s most people I worked with had a passion for the craft but now I find we interview a lot of people who have a CS degree just for the career prospects but not out of interest for the craft. I find it much easier to deal with someone who has no relevant experience but cares vs s…

>> Now someone who has 10 years AND cares is rare but pure gold.

As someone who started programming from a young age and has almost 10 years of commercial experience, I have to say that being in this industry is horrible.

If they promoted people using a random number generator, it would be a step up from what we have now.

The most horrible thing is that in spite of your passion and experience, your ideas are constantly undermined by money-oriented snake oil salesmen who make extraordinary optimistic claims to become liked by management and get promoted quickly within the company; then, just before everything falls apart, they jump ship for a higher position in a different company and let other people deal with the consequences of their past actions. That's why it's really hard to find people with 10 over years who still care. Caring is a weakness.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody looks for someone passionate for the job. Why would CS be any different?

"Passionate" in programming is shorthand for "cares for quality" AND "will improve on their own". Companies are unwilling or unable to train on the job (because it requires tech mentor resources they dont have /wont spare) so they are looking for people they can drop in and see payout for without further investment (particularly in time). I think it is a shortsighted strategy, but not one without basis. The supply pr…

When hiring managers talk about “passion” what they usually mean is that they want to hire a geek who is willing to work crazy hours because of a love of programming and won’t dare negotiate for higher pay or leave for a job that will pay them more.
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