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Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#191

Post by quadrangle »

philipodonnell wrote: post #184
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This disregard for ethics has allowed Facebook to “grow at all costs." There's a great phrase for this: "move fast and break things". When you believe it is ok to break small rules and norms, it becomes easier to break larger norms and ethics and rules. This philosophy took SV by storm, but at its core it's always been about disregarding things like laws and ethics, and now we are seeing the world that created.

Huh. I always interpreted "move fast and break things" to be referring to the speed of development cycle, as in, SV startups prefer to we deploy new code without really testing everything as thoroughly as an enterprise company might, because time to market is most important and people are forgiving if we break their experience for a short time. I don't think anyone would really fault anyone for that interpretation. H…

The break-things part is related to the startup meme of disruption too. And as some critic I read once said, many startups disrupt business status quo in the same way that I disrupt the idea of pet-ownership if I steal your dog.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#192

Post by denom »

zaroth wrote: post #148
snowwrestler wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. If I found out that Google was using Chrome during my authenticated Facebook web sessions to scrape my Facebook data, and my friends' Facebook data, I'd be pretty upset too.

But nothing like that happened here... in the slightest? This was OS chrome integrating Facebook features. An API for Mobile OS UI to integrate Facebook features. How else do you think the OS provides FB functionality... after you enter your credentials into the Settings screen?!

Did the OS keep the data or use it in any way beyond what the OS needed for display etc?

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#193

Post by cjhopman »

cyberpunk0 wrote: post #150
zaroth wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying that Chrome, Edge or Firefox are “third parties”. Embedding user agent functionality into the OS is not the same as third party access. Talk to me when a device manufacturer is caught exfiltrating this user data off the phone and then aim your pitchforks at them .

Google, Firefox, and Edge are not Facebook so yes they are third party.

And does it upset you that when a user signs into facebook in one of these browsers, facebook allows the browser access to that user's data and even data of that user's friends? Even when those friends have explicitly disabled sharing of facebook data with third parties?

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#194

Post by thinkling »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #142
hackinthebochs wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They defined device makers as service providers, and then allowed them to do things that even third parties weren't allowed. Because they're not third parties. Third parties are anyone off the street that meets some minimal requirements. It's like the distinction between third party and second party releases on video game consoles. Second party releases are extensions of the first party publisher because of the spec…

The user is the second party dude.

Yes, so it might be OK for software written by a third party to access FB with the second party's authentication and privileges, when running on the second party's device.

But that doesn't make it OK for that data to be stored on the third party's servers or be otherwise available to the third party.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#195

Post by cjhopman »

11eleven wrote: post #107

It seems a lot of these tech companies' competitive edge is to ignore regulations and rules (other examples: Uber, AirBNB) to grow a massive user base 100x faster, as they hold onto the "scrappy startup" image. Once they have achieved their scale and network effects, they can just promise changes and do an apology tour in response to any regulatory or public backlash after it happens.

> promise changes and do an apology tour in response to any regulatory or public backlash after it happens

Except they aren't apologizing for this. And they shouldn't, it's a non-issue. The next article is going to be about how facebook shares user's data with third parties (chrome/firefox/opera/nefarious browser #3/etc) without any sort of agreement about how those third parties use the data.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#197

Post by DesiLurker »

just switch out of FB. you dont have to quit social media just find a more suitable network (I personally like ello). the crux of the issue is that they know they are a monopoly and wallstreet knows that too so these things will continue until there is a moderating force like people leaving. otherwise I doubt there'll be much happening to rectify these issues for they are the core of their business model not some happenstance things.

btw mozilla created a FB jail thats fully open-sourced a few months ago. use that on FF and it should alleviate some desktop tracking. access here:https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/facebookcontainer/

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#198

Post by snowwrestler »

zaroth wrote: post #148
snowwrestler wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. If I found out that Google was using Chrome during my authenticated Facebook web sessions to scrape my Facebook data, and my friends' Facebook data, I'd be pretty upset too.

But nothing like that happened here... in the slightest? This was OS chrome integrating Facebook features. An API for Mobile OS UI to integrate Facebook features. How else do you think the OS provides FB functionality... after you enter your credentials into the Settings screen?!

I think you need to read a bit more carefully. This was not just API calls, these were data sharing partnerships--i.e. the device companies had access and permission to collect, aggregate, and store customer data in one place, like Cambridge Analytica did. Example quotes (emphasis added by me):

> They said its partnerships were governed by contracts that strictly limited use of the data, including any stored on partners’ servers.

> Tests by The Times showed that the partners requested and received data in the same way other third parties did.

Facebook customer data was collected and stored on servers owned by the device manufacturers. This is not analogous to a browser interacting with the Facebook web application.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#199

Post by abawany »

foobaw wrote: post #196

Worked at an OEM. We preloaded Facebook apps in our phones in exchange for user data. I can't provide more information on how the data was used but I would trust Facebook on this case.

I always found it suspicious that on new (Android) phones with manufacturer ROM, the Facebook app was almost always uninstallable (system app).

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#200

Post by IggleSniggle »

greglindahl wrote: post #63
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This disregard for ethics has allowed Facebook to “grow at all costs." There's a great phrase for this: "move fast and break things". When you believe it is ok to break small rules and norms, it becomes easier to break larger norms and ethics and rules. This philosophy took SV by storm, but at its core it's always been about disregarding things like laws and ethics, and now we are seeing the world that created.

You might think that that's a great phrase for it, but many other people don't interpret "move fast and break things" to mean what you think it means. I'm all for criticizing things that have gone wrong, but you're using an overly-broad brush.

I thought it was insightful. Fundamentally, “move fast and break things” means you’re not going to be afraid to do something just because you haven’t thought through all the repercussions yet. Personally I find it easy to see how to, as an engineer...ignore hunches that there might be a security hole or a privacy hole in the interest of pushing things forward. “Move fast and break things” implies that you’ll get something working out the door and you’ll come back and fix it later. When you always move to the next thing, you never really come back and fix all the things you broke.
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