Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 254 posts

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#191

Post by codedokode »

lloeki wrote: post #185
codedokode wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can add a scary warning which could be enough for many users. And charge additional fee for fixing system broken because of this.

> You can add a scary warning which could be enough for many users Hah. Does the tech crowd never learn? What we expect the "many users" to see: +-------------------+ | This is dangerous | | you'll be on your | | own, so take care | | | | [cancel] [ok] | +-------------------+ What the "many users" really see: +-------------------+ | This is a mildly | | annoying message | | only made to | | delay access to | | instan…

I think it depends on the person. There are responsible people who aren't going to take a risk for dubious opporunity to watch pirated movies on a tiny screen. The message should be honest and then it won't be interpreted as you imagine.

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#192

Post by saagarjha »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #100
jonknee wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing apps outside an app store also introduces other risks, it's not exactly one better than the other. Personally I'd love to sideload apps, but seeing how big of a mess that was on desktops leads me to believe most users are better served by a gatekeeper.

While that's probably true, Apple could bring to iOS what macOS has been doing for years: code-signed apps that aren't distributed through the App Store and aren't subject to any of the App Store's restrictions (and can't guarantee the ostensible security benefits), but can still be "disabled" by Apple if they prove to be bad actors. On macOS, there are actually three states for this: signed App Store apps, signed re…

> There's no really good technical reason for Apple not to allow at least the first two categories on iOS by now.

But then I can sign a jailbreak with my developer certificate and pass it around. Now, you're going to say that such a thing has never happened on macOS, but the fact that it could happen because you've opened the door to it is something that should be considered.

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#193

Post by Moter8 »

robotkdick wrote: post #88
amatecha wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely possible, I'd speculate. I once called Apple tech support for help with my iPhone. So they could see what was going on right on my phone, they were able to remotely request a "screen sharing" session, which I had to click "Allow" on a dialog on my phone to approve. One can imagine that such an approval dialog is not actually required in a technical sense, and _theoretically_ a screen share could be remo…

While true they can access a phone based on the user opting in, there's likely a high degree of "security" around how and when this can occur including the necessity of a user opting in. Tim Cook has taken a very public stance on privacy and the addition of police-unfriendly encryption of data. So, there's much to lose if news were to come out undermining that position. He probably would not be going so far out on a…

I know this is not really on topic, but forensic companies like Cellebrite can unlock/get the data from almost any iOS Device.

Remember, those were the guys that unlocked the San Bernardino iPhone.

Android full encryptions are harder/impossible for them, a Cellebrite person told me half a year ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_d...

https://www.cellebrite.com/en/products/ufed-ultimate/

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#195

Post by saagarjha »

Anon1096 wrote: post #93
wafflebear wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not applicable to Telegram, but if the app is open source and you have a Mac (!) you can install it using Xcode. Since Signal is actually open source, you can install it even if Apple decides to block it in the future (if you have a Mac).

Telegram clients are open source and can be built yourself.

Kinda. They're open source, but the source code is not updated frequently.

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#196

Post by saagarjha »

Moter8 wrote: post #193
robotkdick wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true they can access a phone based on the user opting in, there's likely a high degree of "security" around how and when this can occur including the necessity of a user opting in. Tim Cook has taken a very public stance on privacy and the addition of police-unfriendly encryption of data. So, there's much to lose if news were to come out undermining that position. He probably would not be going so far out on a…

I know this is not really on topic, but forensic companies like Cellebrite can unlock/get the data from almost any iOS Device. Remember, those were the guys that unlocked the San Bernardino iPhone. Android full encryptions are harder/impossible for them, a Cellebrite person told me half a year ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_d... https://www.cellebrite.com/en/products/ufed-ultimate/

> forensic companies like Cellebrite can unlock/get the data from almost any iOS Device

I don't think this is true. Essentially Cellebrite gets ahold of an unpatched exploit that Apple then quickly fixes; that's far cry from being able to unlock "almost any iOS Device".

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#197

Post by saagarjha »

ex3ndr wrote: post #145
dannyw wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new iMessages in the Cloud claims to be 'end to end encrypted', which is true, but omit the fact that a copy of the key is stored with Apple in your iCloud backup... https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 "Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, a copy of the key protecting your Messages is included in your backup" Given that almost everyone has iCloud backup ena…

Backups are encrypted.

I believe the argument was that they're encrypted with keys that Apple has access to.

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#198

Post by saagarjha »

eridius wrote: post #140
dannyw wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new iMessages in the Cloud claims to be 'end to end encrypted', which is true, but omit the fact that a copy of the key is stored with Apple in your iCloud backup... https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 "Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, a copy of the key protecting your Messages is included in your backup" Given that almost everyone has iCloud backup ena…

Good to be aware of, but¹ Messages in iCloud is off by default². ¹At least for existing users. ²And almost certainly requires opt-in for new users as well.

Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted. It's iCloud Backup that has issues.

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#199

Post by Muromec »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #151
Muromec wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fair enough - this is essentially my own question above - what pressure can be applied by Russia to Apple to prevent App Store UK getting updates? They can fine the company, ban import of Apple products into the country, block access to App Store, etc. Yes, that same agency. It doesn't even matter which regional section of App Store Telegram would use to publish app - users in need can switch between them and censo…

Let me rephrase- yes they can impose a fine, harass employees, ban imports of iphones, but what can they do that will work - ie force apple to ban a well known app from the app store innsuch a blatant fashion. Apple would be insane to comply with these demands, because it just opens the door for every other regieme to do the same. So ... is Apple stopping Telegram from sending the updates? Are they doing it because o…

>Apple would be insane to comply with these demands, because it just opens the door for every other regieme to do the same.

But they already did in China, right?

Re: Telegram App Says Apple Is Blocking Updates Over Dispute with Russia

#200

Post by saagarjha »

konart wrote: post #167

At the same time alternative clients are getting their updates just fine (like Teleplus and Loopy).

There are a multitude of reason why this is the case. It might be that Telegram in particular did something that pissed Apple off, or that Apple is ignoring third-party clients.
Post reply on HN