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Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

lowtechmagazine.com

191–200 of 238 posts

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#191
Also works for vehicles. Hydraulic hybrids capture 3x more of the braking energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_hybrid_vehicle

There's a retrofit for garbage trucks that pays for itself in 2 years, or you can buy them new.

http://www.govtech.com/transportation/Hybrid-Garbage-Miami-D...

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#192

I was quite excited by compressed air storage when Lightsail came into the picture almost 5-7 years ago. Sadly, they could not make the economics work and ended up pivoting into a company that sells carbon fibre tanks for high-pressure storage. As someone who follows the energy space closely, Lithium ion batteries now have so much momentum and $$$ pumped into them via R&D work, it's going to be hard for competing ene…

>As someone who follows the energy space closely, Lithium ion batteries now have so much momentum and $$$ pumped into them via R&D work, it's going to be hard for competing energy storage technologies to catch up. Flywheel and hydrogen fuel-cell also often come up but I think we're at a point now where batteries are going to take off simply because of their wide area of applicability. With that economy of scale costs…

It would really be something if that miniature nuclear reactor NASA tested ended up being viable for cars, realizing one of the dreams from the early nuclear age.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#193
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gives you that impression? Insulation is cheap, effective, and very compact. And it's easy to transfer heat quickly, also (either via injecting lots of cold extinguisher or flush lots of hot oxidizing gas)? Cool, thanks for the update on flywheels. I ... am not trying to create a false dilemna, here. Fuel cells for stranded methane deposits are great. Flywheels have outstanding responsiveness and energy density.…

Except we've had a carbon free baseload tech for decades now.

It's kind of bizarre how nuclear had achieved a sort of counterculture renaissance. It has many, many drawbacks too numerous to go into here that are technical and sociological in nature.

And anyway, you tried to be too clever. I said "non-renewable" and not "carbon free" just to avoid this conversation. Unless you can start synthesizing utility grade quantities of well-behaved fissile material at a net energy surplus then it's not renewable even if we have decades/centuries of supply.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#194

I was quite excited by compressed air storage when Lightsail came into the picture almost 5-7 years ago. Sadly, they could not make the economics work and ended up pivoting into a company that sells carbon fibre tanks for high-pressure storage. As someone who follows the energy space closely, Lithium ion batteries now have so much momentum and $$$ pumped into them via R&D work, it's going to be hard for competing ene…

>As someone who follows the energy space closely, Lithium ion batteries now have so much momentum and $$$ pumped into them via R&D work, it's going to be hard for competing energy storage technologies to catch up. Flywheel and hydrogen fuel-cell also often come up but I think we're at a point now where batteries are going to take off simply because of their wide area of applicability. With that economy of scale costs…

I guess storage tech is optional for auto and heavy industry - you can use diesel engines or whatever. For smartphones and the like though there is not much option apart from developing batteries.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gives you that impression? Insulation is cheap, effective, and very compact. And it's easy to transfer heat quickly, also (either via injecting lots of cold extinguisher or flush lots of hot oxidizing gas)? Cool, thanks for the update on flywheels. I ... am not trying to create a false dilemna, here. Fuel cells for stranded methane deposits are great. Flywheels have outstanding responsiveness and energy density.…

Batteries don't like insulation, in fact preferring active cooling. Which is itself a good thermal-runaway damper, to speak to the second sentence of your second paragraph.

The other kind of firewall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewall_(construction)

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#196
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For home use you also have to consider that you're basically making a bomb every time you store energy in the thing.

Any kind of high-density energy storage is basically a bomb. If you charge or discharge Lithium polymer or lithuium ion batteries "wrong" they explode too. I wouldn't want to be near a flywheel that stores 360 Wh of energy when it breaks.

People say that but searching youtube for exploding lithium ion batteries they seem to make fairly lame bombs. More some flames come out maybe a foot and then they burn eg https://youtu.be/SMy2_qNO2Y0?t=1m57s

I'm not sure they ever explode in a bomb like way?

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#197
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except we've had a carbon free baseload tech for decades now.

It's kind of bizarre how nuclear had achieved a sort of counterculture renaissance. It has many, many drawbacks too numerous to go into here that are technical and sociological in nature. And anyway, you tried to be too clever. I said "non-renewable" and not "carbon free" just to avoid this conversation. Unless you can start synthesizing utility grade quantities of well-behaved fissile material at a net energy surplu…

> Unless you can start synthesizing utility grade quantities of well-behaved fissile material at a net energy surplus then it's not renewable even if we have decades/centuries of supply.

Someday, even the Sun will run out of fuel. In the long run, we are all dead - unless someone figures out how to reverse entropy.

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#198
I would just love a couple of small vertical turbines slowly pumping up my underground storage. I live in a sometimes violent wind location, often just when I could use the energy to run the furnace. I could see easily augering 10-15ft holes , dropping in vertically buried, used, composite tanks bought off Ebay, run at a fraction of their max pressure. Easily adding more to increase capacity, as needed. Yes a little pock-pock noise of the pistons and check valves, but it would only happen when wind blows. Though, a tank failure may mean retrieving it off the roof.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As someone who follows the energy space closely, Lithium ion batteries now have so much momentum and $$$ pumped into them via R&D work, it's going to be hard for competing energy storage technologies to catch up. Flywheel and hydrogen fuel-cell also often come up but I think we're at a point now where batteries are going to take off simply because of their wide area of applicability. With that economy of scale costs…

It would really be something if that miniature nuclear reactor NASA tested ended up being viable for cars, realizing one of the dreams from the early nuclear age.

Given that even a small reactor still requires considerable shielding, generates waste that could be used for nuclear proliferation (if ammassed), and emits harmful radiation, I would say chances of a nuclear car for the every man are slim to none.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage

#200
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For home use you also have to consider that you're basically making a bomb every time you store energy in the thing.

Any kind of high-density energy storage is basically a bomb. If you charge or discharge Lithium polymer or lithuium ion batteries "wrong" they explode too. I wouldn't want to be near a flywheel that stores 360 Wh of energy when it breaks.

Not really. A good bomb has high velocity. Lots of high energy storage methods are slow reacting.
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