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Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

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Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#191

Post by quadrangle »

cabaalis wrote: post #165
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their choices are to either be GDPR-complient, or to completely bar all EU users from accessing Facebook. They cannot use tracking opt-in as a requirement for access.

American here; I just don't quite understand the premise. "Here is what you are giving us, and here is what you're getting in return" seems perfectly legit to me. If this interpretation of the law is correct, then the government is essentially saying the "in return" portion has to be eliminated. Which seems to be against the idea of trade.

Are you suggesting that somehow any law is inherently wrong if it regulates trade at all? Trade is a means to the end of having healthy, productive populations. It's not something to prioritize above all else, especially in cases where trade hurts the well-being of populations.

In the specific case of Facebook, near-zero of the users actually understand either what they are giving or the full extent of what they are getting or not (especially since the latter changes constantly as FB alters their policies and algorithms etc). So, it's more like "give us stuff you don't understand with ramifications you haven't thought about, and you get a complex, somewhat unpredictable, changing service." This is nothing like the theoretical trade between two participants with equal power and complete information.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#192

Post by _rpd »

zzzcpan wrote: post #179

If websites are going to ask for consent to tracking or deny access to the service only allowing to take the data, delete account and leave, the whole thing will become meaningless. Users will just learn to blindly accept everything, as this is a huge annoyance to them.

Yes, I thought that the GDPR was explicitly drafted to ensure it wouldn't just become a "more annoying cookie law."

Edit: they are doing this before the May 25th deadline.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#194

Post by KozmoNau7 »

frockington wrote: post #177
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB is already in a shitstorm of bad PR. They have a very easy choice actually. Either abide by the rules if they want to service EU citizens, or GTFO. If they want to give up a couple hundred million users and hand them over to the GDPR-compliant competition, that's their choice. It would be monumentally stupid, though. FB needs EU users a lot more than EU users need FB, but they're trying very hard to spin the press…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8327185.stm - McDonalds pulled out of Iceland when it became to expensive. I wonder if the EU is going to price itself out of international technology. The affect would be less than ideal for a continent that preaches globalization

They pulled out of one of the smallest markets they could find, as a PR move to "show that they mean business". They had three restaurants in the entire country, and they pulled out because of the financial crisis, not because of taxes. That's hardly a sign that they would pull out of France, Germany or even Denmark.

If by "international technology" you mean "blatant disregard for privacy", then good riddance. We don't need that sort of "technology".

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#195

Post by Deinos »

dan1234 wrote: post #169
juxncxrlos wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about memes pages? that's the only reason I keep my account. Also, I don't even see adds with and Ad-blocker. What are they going to try to sell me, a meme page subscription?

Most of the memes will have been copied from Reddit anyway.

Exactly. Little of the content is original; most of it is either re-posted or stolen outright from the original creators. [1]

[1] https://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2015/07...

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#196

Post by icebraining »

Tharkun wrote: post #75
icebraining wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they chose a specific business model doesn't mean it's necessary. Nobody says the lunch must be free, just that not every avenue of funding is allowed.

Please read the GDPR text and then tell me where it says anything like this.

I'd have to quote too much. Essentially you only have six allowed reasons for processing personal data (article 6). The only ones that could apply are (a) consent or (b) necessary for performance of contract.

(b) isn't applicable because it only applies when it's directly necessary to provide for that particular user (like processing a CC number when paying for a product). That you business model generally needs it is not enough (see the ICO FAQ on the issue[1]).

(a) Consent is valid, but it must be freely given, that is, the provision on the service can't be conditional on the consent (article 7 (4)).

[1] https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#198

Post by jacquesm »

frockington wrote: post #161
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, the GDPR stipulates that you cannot deny people access to you service if they do not opt-in to tracking, unless the service you provide is very specifically a tracking service. Tracking is not the primary service Facebook provides to their users, so the GDPR will not allow them to bar access for users who do not opt-in to being tracked.

And how would Europe make an American company offer services to Europeans? Is there a legal pathway to do this or would their court summons be used to level out chairs in FB HQ?

FB has a European HQ.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#199

Post by _rpd »

noja wrote: post #101
ClassAndBurn wrote: post #42

GDPR doesn't cover enough of the population using Facebook to warrant such a change to their business model where you can use the service without them using your data. They believe they are entrenched enough to just require this (and likely are for many EU residents).

Are you talking with real knowledge of the facts, or is this a guess? Because my guess would be that it would be cheaper to adhere to the rules rather than let a competitor grow big in Europe and eat their market elsewhere.

But the 'competitor' will have much lower revenue than Facebook because of the lack of targeted advertising.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#200

Post by hadrien01 »

Nullabillity wrote: post #140
hadrien01 wrote: post #15

Just after that Terms screen I got three real consent screens (including one about ads tracking and one about face recognition). I think this screen is only about the TOS update.

Weird. I only got the facial recognition screen and the "accept ToS or delete your account" one.

You might have already configured (and disabled) ad tracking when privacy options went up a few months back?
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