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Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

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Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#191

Post by ams6110 »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #65
edf13 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your basically paying (A lot) of cash to beta test their software for them... at your own (Very personal) risk!

Not just your own risk... There are other people on the road who share that risk. It makes me angry at Elon Musk himself. First he didn't sterilize that stupid thing he sent into interplanetary space. Now he's putting peoples lives at risk.

Well there's plenty of unsterilized stuff in space. The early space missions just dumped the bodily waste of the astronauts overboard.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#192

Post by gnachman »

iainmerrick wrote: post #54

This kind of video makes me wonder: what is the "autopilot" feature actually for? Do people generally like it? (I don't own a Tesla and I've never driven one.) If you're supposed to keep your hands on the wheel, and given videos like this that show you really need to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention, is automatic steering really that big of a deal? Cruise control, now, that really is useful because it a…

It’s good in traffic jams. You can relax a lot more than driving yourself or autopilot at high speed. The worst case scenario is a fender bender.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#193

Post by jacquesm »

ams6110 wrote: post #183
jacquesm wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive a lot with my GPS (TomTom) on and it rarely gets the lane I'm in wrong, usually that only happens in construction zones. So even if the error can be large in practice it often works very well. It would be very interesting to see the input data streams these self driving systems rely on in case of errors, and in the case of accidents there might even be a legal reason to obtain them (for liability purposes).

Counterpoint, my Lenovo tablet running google maps often seems to get confused about lanes. E.g. it will think I'm taking an exit ramp when I am still on the main road. Once the ramp and the road diverge enough it will recover, but not before going into it's "rerouting" mode and sometimes even starting directions to get back on the road I'm already on.

That sounds pretty bad if that's the thing you rely on to get you where you're going. Here in NL interchanges are often complex enough that without the navigator picking the right lane you'd end up taking the wrong exit.

I don't use Google maps for driving but I know plenty of people that do and having been in the car with them on occasion has made me even happier with my dedicated navigation system. The voice prompts are super confusing with a lot of irrelevant information (and usually totally mis-pronounced) and now you are supplying even more data points that the actual navigation itself isn't as good as it could be.

I suspect this is a by-product of doing a lot of stuff rather than just doing one thing and doing that well.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#194

Post by buvanshak »

jacquesm wrote: post #51
robotnixon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot has trouble with stationary objects. https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/

What would it take to get Tesla to admit the product is unsafe and should be disabled until they get it right? Or will they simply plow on until a regulator steps in?

> What would it take to get Tesla to admit the product is unsafe...

People should start to vote with their purse. In other words, stop buying these cars, or start selling their stocks.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#195

Post by coredog64 »

alex_duf wrote: post #117
iainmerrick wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand that. I like cruise control because it lets me focus 100% on steering and watching the road around me. Trying to maintain a steady speed and conserve gas is a fun challenge, but a bit pointless, because a) it's a distraction from more important tasks, and b) the computer can usually do it better than I can.

It's also more comfortable for your passengers. I did a 6 hours trip with a friend continuously putting his foot up and down on the throttle, and it was the most gruelling car trip I've had I think. When I asked he said it was "to keep control on the car". I'm a patient friend.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were describing my wife.

In her defense, she learned to drive in a very different environment (dense Chicago surface street traffic).

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#196

Post by aws_ls »

jacquesm wrote: post #157
lisper wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lane markings are confusing but GPS and inertial readings should have clearly indicated that that is not a lane GPS is not accurate enough to reliably pinpoint your location to a particular lane. Even WAAS ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System ) can have up to 25 feet of error. Basic GPS is less accurate than that. In fact, it's possible that GPS error was a contributing factor here but ther…

I drive a lot with my GPS (TomTom) on and it rarely gets the lane I'm in wrong, usually that only happens in construction zones. So even if the error can be large in practice it often works very well. It would be very interesting to see the input data streams these self driving systems rely on in case of errors, and in the case of accidents there might even be a legal reason to obtain them (for liability purposes).

Is it using some other localization technique to complement the GPS? GPS at best can give accuracy within 3 meters (if I remember right). To make it accurate, laser/radar beams are shot out to the landmarks, of which precise co-ordinates are known, and using them the pin point coordinates of Ego vehicle are determined.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#197

Post by raisedbyninjas »

lisper wrote: post #122

Here is my armchair diagnosis: right before the car veers towards the barrier it drives through a stretch of road where the only visible lane marker is on the left. Then the right lane marker comes into view at about the point where the lane starts to widen out for the lane split. The lines that will become the right and left lane markers of the split left and right lanes respectively are right next to the van in fro…

>This is actually the most serious aspect of all of these crashes: the system does not seem to be aware when it is getting things wrong.

Although serious, this is working as designed. Level II self-driving doesn't have automation that makes guarantees about recognizing scenarios it cannot handle. At level III, the driver can safely close their eyes until the car sounds the alarm that it needs emergency help. Audi plans to release a level III car next year, so we'll see how liability for accidents actually shakes out.

Unfortunately level II is probably the most dangerous automation even with drivers that understand the limitations of the system. They still need constant vigilance to notice failures like this and react quickly enough to avoid collisions. Just imagine poorly marked or abrupt and ramps or intersections that drivers hardly have enough time to react when they're already driving. Add in the delay to notice the computer is steering you into a wall and yank the wheel can turn some of these accident prone areas into accident likely areas.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#198

Post by coenhyde »

iainmerrick wrote: post #91
Naritai wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To directly answer your question: people buy autopilot so they can check their phone while commuting down the freeway to work. I was talking to a group of people about the difficulties of commuting in the Santa Clara Valley, and one guy shrugged and said, "just get a Tesla, move to the left lane, and manage email until you get to work".

Yikes! I really hope that's a joke...

It's not a joke. I was in a bus crossing the Bay Bridge a few weeks ago. I was watching a Tesla driver play on his phone. He didn't look up once in the span where I had visibility (about half of the bridge).

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#199

Post by jacquesm »

aws_ls wrote: post #196
jacquesm wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive a lot with my GPS (TomTom) on and it rarely gets the lane I'm in wrong, usually that only happens in construction zones. So even if the error can be large in practice it often works very well. It would be very interesting to see the input data streams these self driving systems rely on in case of errors, and in the case of accidents there might even be a legal reason to obtain them (for liability purposes).

Is it using some other localization technique to complement the GPS? GPS at best can give accuracy within 3 meters (if I remember right). To make it accurate, laser/radar beams are shot out to the landmarks, of which precise co-ordinates are known, and using them the pin point coordinates of Ego vehicle are determined.

Inertial, flux gate compass.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#200

Post by gdulli »

gormz wrote: post #40

You can pry the steering wheel out of my cold dead hands. Might be true that on paper these things cause less accidents and less deaths, but I want to be in control of my life. If I die in a car I don't want it to be because of a software bug.

I wouldn't even say it's that they're safer on paper, it's that they're purely hypothetically safer. In the same manner that you're "safer" when entrusting your data to the Googles and Facebooks of the world. Smart people know what they're doing, right?
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