This will be the first major test of liability and insurance with a self-driving vehicle.
Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
191–200 of 1001 posts
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#192The people leading the development should demonstrate that they can stop for pedestrians by personally jumping out in front of them on a closed test road. If they're not able to demonstrate this, they shouldn't be putting them on public roads.
The ancient Romans would have the civil engineer stand under the bridge they'd just built while a Legion marched over it. That's why Roman structures are still around today!
Would they do it enough times for such observation to have any statistical significance?
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? It’s not a problem if Uber kills pedestrians, even in situations where it’s completely avoidable. It’s only (legally) a problem if they’re violating the rules of the road while doing so.
> It’s only (legally) a problem if they’re violating the rules of the road while doing so. I doubt that's true, but even if it were, I believe the rules of the road are "always yield to pedestrians, even if you have the right-of-way".
I think their (idiotically stated) point was that there are plenty of situation where you can kill someone on the road in an accident and not have any legal liability for it.
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#194The video mentions she was on a bike and shows a mangled bicycle. Also the line markings on the street indicate there is a bike lane to the left of a right turn lane. Definitely very bad. https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4369934,-111.9429875,3a,75y,...
Not to be insensitive to the death. But, that bike lane design is just horrible. Are human drivers really known for respecting the "do not cross solid white line" rules? 9/10 drivers that realize at the last moment they need to turn right are going to quickly cross over this bike lane probably without much time to check their blind spot. If I was cycling on this path, I'd want to use the sidewalk and be extra cautiou…
Anec-dataly, I agree. We live at the edge of a residential area where there is a long stretch of road with bike lanes and turns into the residential area every block. Not only do people regularly drive in the bike lanes, the people who do so are typically the most aggressive and inattentive drivers who are trying to angrily speed around the lines of cars who are driving the speed limit and respecting the stop signs. I'm not aware of any recent accidents, but only because cyclists seem to just completely avoid the entire stretch of road.
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#195Really? This is a completely new tech, and process. How is any reaction "a standard move?" I guess it could be standard for any new tech to result in a death from autonomous machinery. In any case, things like this are why I don't think fully autonomous is nearly ready in city environments. I'm not saying it isn't close, and shouldn't be worked on. I just don't think the intelligence systems are near as worked out as they should be. Not to mention the level of sensors needed.
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#196Not to dismiss the tragedy of this incident, but it should be expected that self-driving cars kill pedestrians -- just at a rate lower than what's expected from human drivers. Perhaps there's a better metric to look at, but I'd like to see number of deaths caused per miles driven. If Uber's self-driving cars are killing more pedestrians than a human driver would, we have a huge problem, but I'd be willing to bet they…
There is no data available at the moment to draw conclusions that self-driving cars bring less fatalities, and rightly so, because they have not been tested on a beta stage. You are only guessing and hoping.
There is certainly at least SOME data. At the very least, let's find out how many miles Uber's self-driving program has driven. Then, we can, at least, compare deaths per miles driven to a human driver.
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#197Sad to hear it's happened this soon but this was inevitable.
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#198The reason self-driving car companies have flocked to Arizona is that Arizona chose to pretty much completely deregulate them: They don't even have to report statistics to the state like they do in California. It's unfortunate, but unsurprising, the first pedestrian killed by an experimental self-driving car allowed on public roads was in Arizona.
What will the consequences of this person’s killing be? Will someone lose out on a promotion, or miss their performance bonus? We need to discuss how the developers self-driving cars will be held accountable for the crimes they commit. There is no reason the person who programs or the person who makes money from a self-driving car should be held less accountable for a crime that if committed directly by a person woul…
If you hold developers responsible, you can kiss self driving cars goodbye.
What should be passed (but I can't see how) is a percentage of allowed deaths, at least in the early years, and set it to something like 5-10% of the current rate, reducing downwards to 1% after 20 years.
People will die from self driving cars, and undoubtably their will eventually be a case that is 100% the self driving car's fault. The benefit of self driving cars comes from the mistake being permanently fixed, while with human drivers it can be committed over and over again.
There needs to be some kind of protection on the companies (and obviously the developers, I've never heard someone try to say they should be held responsible before) from lawsuits. Otherwise all it'll take a is a small handful beefore companies will just let it die.
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#199The reason self-driving car companies have flocked to Arizona is that Arizona chose to pretty much completely deregulate them: They don't even have to report statistics to the state like they do in California. It's unfortunate, but unsurprising, the first pedestrian killed by an experimental self-driving car allowed on public roads was in Arizona.
What will the consequences of this person’s killing be? Will someone lose out on a promotion, or miss their performance bonus? We need to discuss how the developers self-driving cars will be held accountable for the crimes they commit. There is no reason the person who programs or the person who makes money from a self-driving car should be held less accountable for a crime that if committed directly by a person woul…
I'm guessing people are downvoting because of the implication that the software team should be held responsible?
Something does feel wrong about punishing them when the decision to put the car on the road in the first place was almost certainly not their own.
Though I agree Uber should be held accountable for it and it shouldn't be a token fine since the whole point of punishing an accident like this is to discourage them from occurring in the first place.
This sort of accident orchestrated by a group of people probably won't be gracefully handled by our legal system.
Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street
#200The people leading the development should demonstrate that they can stop for pedestrians by personally jumping out in front of them on a closed test road. If they're not able to demonstrate this, they shouldn't be putting them on public roads.
Said that few times: how does any AI recognize whether object in front of me is just a white plastic bag rolling in the street, or a baby that rolled out of crib. AI cannot know and will never know. And we cannot have cars drive smoth in traffic if every self driven car will stop before hitting an empty plastic bag.
actually i slow down for plastic bags. And not because i care for their safety.