Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

bizjournals.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 215 posts

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#191

Post by joshuamorton »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #187
joshuamorton wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are pros and cons of each model. You probably won't see the cons until you experience it yourself for a few years. I'm curious what you feel the cons are. I've lived in essentially this format now in two cities in two different continents, for a while overall, and I haven't really noticed downsides, except that sometimes I would need to cross the street to go to a different "grocery store" because the one I li…

>I'm curious what you feel the cons are. All the cons about living in an apartment/condo vs a single family home (which all basically boil down to a reduction in one's personal freedom on/in their own home).

Ah, I thought you meant something specific about living in an apartment/condo in an urban area with things in walking distance, vs. rural/suburban. I consider those somewhat orthogonal, but I see your point.

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#192

Post by [deleted] »

bluehat wrote: post #188
rs999gti wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> did the slums exist before the highways and freeways that divide them from the wealthy whites? You mean Oakland and Vallejo? Yeah that stuff has been there before the start of SV. See MC Hammer and Too Short for references to past gang activity in Oakland.

...you think MC Hammer predates SV? We started out as the site where transistors were made. That is also why the ground is so horrendously toxic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Semiconductor

[deleted]

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#193

Post by pchristensen »

jsolson wrote: post #24
baron816 wrote: post #11

Parking would be less of a deal if they built mixed developments, which are more desirable anyway. It’s quite nice being able to walk out of your house and drop right into a coffee shop, bar, or restaurant. Walking to work or school is amazing too. People here seem to be so afraid that their neighborhoods will begin to look more like Dubai or Hong Kong. But clearly what we’re doing now isn’t sustainable, nor is it ev…

If by mixed do you just mean residential over retail? Is the Bay Area actually opposed to that?

Financing development is a big constraint - loans that conform to existing types can be resold. This is why strip malls, industrial parks, malls, and housing developments look the same all over America. If a developer wants to build a multistory, mixed use development, they have to negotiate exceptional financing as well as zoning variances. Even if a city greatly loosened single use zoning, it would still probably be slow and expensive to redevelop.

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#194

Post by dragonwriter »

rs999gti wrote: post #185
asteli wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I dig into this, the less I realize I know. I asked, "did the slums exist before the highways and freeways that divide them from the wealthy whites?" The best I've come up with is "Sort of." Apparently, in the 50's and 60s, city officials throughout the US thought of urban freeways as "a good opportunity to get rid of the local 'niggertown.'"[1] But that attempt at clearing the local slums ended up further d…

> did the slums exist before the highways and freeways that divide them from the wealthy whites? You mean Oakland and Vallejo? Yeah that stuff has been there before the start of SV. See MC Hammer and Too Short for references to past gang activity in Oakland.

Those references are not before the highways and freeways mentioned upthread, and also do not predate Silicon Valley. (Too Short and MC Hammer were in elementary school when Silicon Valley was first recognized as a thing.)

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#195

Post by epistasis »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #189
epistasis wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are along transit corridors, so it would be along busy routes, not in the middle of single family homes. Along rail and the very busiest bus routes is exactly where we need and want apartments that have 3-4 stories. It would make no sense to put them in the middle of single family housing because those are deserts unless you have a car, and most people that would appreciate density would love to be able to do m…

>And we shouldn't be building rail without such density, because otherwise the rail is going to underutilized. Similarly with bus routes; why send tons of buses along a route if there's no possibility to pick up lots of people? Park and ride is a thing. That said you need whatever the "ride" is to be cost competitive for people to take advantage of that and that's a tall order given the quality of local government in…

Yeah, park and ride may make sense as gathering points from exurbs, but on the flip side, putting parking close to train stations also prevents putting housing close to it. The only place where I've seen park and ride work is for some places in New Jersey, where you commute to a Manhattan density area. Not sure if, for example, Millbrae BART is as well utilized as that.

And as you ride those NJ lines, you see how many more people are supported at stops that have housing instead of parking. Parking is >200sq ft. that could be used for living instead.

A lot of my feelings are about my personal experience though, and I wouldn't want to stop park and ride if it works for enough people to support a train stop. For me, driving, then parking, then traversing a long ugly parking lot is a significantly worse experience than living there and walking out.

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#196

Post by nugi »

dionidium wrote: post #190
kaycebasques wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve lived up and down the peninsula and haven’t relied on a car in 10 years. Thanks to a mix of choosing strategic locations, biking, BART, Caltrain, Lyft, Zipcar / Getaround, and friends with cars. Anecdotal, I know, but just chiming in to say it’s definitely possible.

It's possible everywhere . The last two places I lived in St. Louis had Walk Scores in the 90s. If you prioritize it, you can get it. (But obviously some places have a lot more of it than others.)

Not everywhere. I live a whopping 30 minutes from the city line and no uber, no bus, no train, etc. There is a local who will drive you to the airport, and thats it. You overgeneralizing city centric viewpoint is not applicable to MOST of the world. We still need cars, and gas ones at that. Hell, I am one of the few with ACCESS to "high speed" (1.2mb) internet. I am on a major highway, not some obscure hole either.

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#197

Post by dsfyu404ed »

epistasis wrote: post #195
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And we shouldn't be building rail without such density, because otherwise the rail is going to underutilized. Similarly with bus routes; why send tons of buses along a route if there's no possibility to pick up lots of people? Park and ride is a thing. That said you need whatever the "ride" is to be cost competitive for people to take advantage of that and that's a tall order given the quality of local government in…

Yeah, park and ride may make sense as gathering points from exurbs, but on the flip side, putting parking close to train stations also prevents putting housing close to it. The only place where I've seen park and ride work is for some places in New Jersey, where you commute to a Manhattan density area. Not sure if, for example, Millbrae BART is as well utilized as that. And as you ride those NJ lines, you see how man…

>For me, driving, then parking, then traversing a long ugly parking lot is a significantly worse experience than living there and walking out.

This assumes that "there" isn't a terrible place to live and also affordable.

Your NJ example is exactly the use case I was thinking of. It makes sense when density is uniform and job distribution is not because it's effectively a spur or extension of the mass transit line.

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#198

Post by russellbeattie »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #150
russellbeattie wrote: post #111

Every time they mass-build housing, the results are horrible. The quality of the homes is always "transitional". In Europe or even New York, you can rent flats which are large enough for a family and constructed to give you a sense of privacy, even with density. Floors and ceilings and walls are solid enough you barely notice you're sharing the building. Shops are always close by, as well as public transport and scho…

Not sure that's true about Europe, most mass-built housing globally suffers from the same issues.

I have to admit that when I say "Europe", I'm talking about Spain where I lived for 4 years, and a few other countries I've visited over the years. My son's family in Spain bought into the real estate boom and the flat they eventually got in a new highrise is actually great and just like I described. It's smallish by American standards, of course, but not insanely so. And you can't hear anyone else. It's a real home.

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#199

Post by luka-birsa »

Having lived in the valley a couple times for months-long stints I never quite understood how the Valley doesn't get how cities should be built.

I live in Ljubljana (https://www.google.si/maps/place/Ljubljana/, ~300k), a capital of a tiny nation of Slovenia. I live in the city center and have in 5 minutes on foot radius (50m): multiple grocery stores, schools, kindergartens, parks, market, cafes, restaurants...

In the valley, it's impossible to live without a car. Just getting a freaking coffee usually includes a ride. ATM = ride, burger = ride, ... You guys spend hours in your car just to get the basics done. I actually didn't know what to do in Palo Alto until I got a rental.

And SF ain't any better. Sure there are parts of the city that are actually similar to what you would expect in a normal, livable European city, but most of it is not really. And you still need a car to move across town.

I find east coast much better - Boston is quite walkable and New York even more so.

Can anyone explain to me why do you have this shitty setup in the valley? Feels so random that it must be some kind-of wierd policy enforcement that caused this.

Re: Mountain View approves 10,000 homes by Google's North Bayshore project (2017)

#200

Post by distances »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #187
joshuamorton wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are pros and cons of each model. You probably won't see the cons until you experience it yourself for a few years. I'm curious what you feel the cons are. I've lived in essentially this format now in two cities in two different continents, for a while overall, and I haven't really noticed downsides, except that sometimes I would need to cross the street to go to a different "grocery store" because the one I li…

>I'm curious what you feel the cons are. All the cons about living in an apartment/condo vs a single family home (which all basically boil down to a reduction in one's personal freedom on/in their own home).

> All the cons about living in an apartment/condo vs a single family home (which all basically boil down to a reduction in one's personal freedom on/in their own home).

I personally grew up in a spacious single family home, but love my current life in an apartment. I don't feel it restricts my personal freedom at all, plus I get the perks of living in a vibrant area.

Post reply on HN