Americans are spending less on clothing • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#191

Post by strictnein » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 4:41 PM UTC

eumenides1 wrote: post #112

adamc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it was when I started in the U.S. But the last 25 years have seen a huge shift in workplace dress codes in the US. Organizations that resisted discovered that it had an effect on retention -- in part because there are pocketbook implications, and perhaps in part because it is just more convenient to be able to use the same wardrobe for everything.

I just wanted to underline the phrase "effect on retention". In North America, lots of talent (i.e. new grads) would straight up not pick companies with dress codes. Pay also tended to be not different, and "prestige" of working for X is not really a thing. So everything changed. Also, even in the dressed up companies, they had "dress down days". People liked them. So they had more.

> "In North America, lots of talent (i.e. new grads) would straight up not pick companies with dress codes"

I made that decision almost 15 years ago. Had offers from two companies. They were similar jobs, but with one I had to wear a button up shirt, slacks, and a tie. The other I could wear shorts and flip flops in the summer, jeans and a hoodie in the winter. I chose the latter.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#192

Post by curun1r » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

freejulian wrote: post #164

randcraw wrote: post #88

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories ar…

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

Sounds more likely, and the causality of the effects GP observed may also be transitive through tightened finances. For example, more businesses could be encouraging/allowing more casual dress, in part, because they know they're not paying enough to expect their employees to wear more formal attire. So rather than spending habits being driven by workplace norms, workplace norms are likely driven by workers' ability to spend.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#193

Post by astura » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 4:45 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #181

freejulian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

That's refuted by the increases in US consumer spending while clothing expenditures are simultaneously falling. You'll need to support your claims about the second item. Saying it, does not make it so. Real disposable income is at an all-time high. Personal consumption expenditures are at an all-time high. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96 Americans are also spending le…

I wonder what is counted as soda. I've noticed, among my ageing peer group, people are switching en mass to flavored carbonated water (seltzer). Of course, that might just be due to age, but I've also noticed that more store space seems to be dedicated to these beverages, again, might just be because I'm buying them now, thus noticing.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#194

Post by astura » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 4:47 PM UTC

freejulian wrote: post #164

randcraw wrote: post #88

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories ar…

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

You're explanation is not less complicated and far from the simplest, a much simpler explanation is clothes are simply cheaper.

Dunno if that's true or not, but I suspect it is just from my experience. "Fast fashion" has really taken off.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#195

Post by garethsprice » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #187

I've always had difficulty finding clothing that fit because I'm tall but not big. When online shopping started to take off in the early 2000s it made finding clothing in my size dramatically easier and actually allowed me to choose a style beyond "whatever you have in my size". In the past 5 years however I've noticed my options for dress clothing dwindling dramatically and choice being limited to only mainly what's…

Same boat here - 6'6" with 27" sleeves and skinny (albeit increasingly less so with age). Finding a good local alterations tailor has changed my sartorial life - as long as a shirt fits in the neck and sleeve then the chest can be taken in for about $10. Same with slacks - there's usually a few inches of extra fabric for waist or hem increases that cost maybe $20.

I also looked into online made-to-measure services like Indochino ($60-120 per shirt for full custom) but I find I get higher quality buying off-the-rack on discount and having it tailored.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#196

Post by tehlike » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

tehlike wrote: post #166

freejulian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

People don't have the time to spend on clothing.

This is going to sound a bit arrogant, but a person has only room for so many decisions for a day before they get burned for the day. This is why i prefer to pick a random tshirt, wear same sneakers etc every day (they are clean, yes). I tend to grab food from the same truck, at the same time - i do not think about it.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#197

Post by schnevets » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

freejulian wrote: post #164

randcraw wrote: post #88

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories ar…

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

This economic shift also affects the insulated, higher-class Americans by making noticeable changes on culture. In most roles, a nice suit at the office now suggests arrogance or even distrust. Instead, we venerate the "hoodie and t-shirt" CEO.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#198

Post by sanmon3186 » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

bballer wrote: post #58

With the exception of shoes and jackets I buy all my clothes at Goodwill. It's awesome! Every couple of months I spend around $20 dollars and I always have nice new tee shirts, button ups, pants etc. You wont believe how many nice clothes people simply give away. Plus it makes me feel great knowing I'm contributing to reuse and giving money to a company that helps employee less fortunate people.

I really admire that. There is stigma attached to second-hand clothes, at least in India. If you can afford it, it is almost unacceptable to wear second hand clothes, especially outside family and friends.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#199

Post by rb808 » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

freejulian wrote: post #164

randcraw wrote: post #88

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories ar…

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

That doesn't explain why people in the poorest countries dress better than Americans. People living in the slums of India/Nigeria/Brazil are more likely to have a collared shirt and dress pants than an American going to work in an office.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#200

Post by prostoalex » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

freejulian wrote: post #164

randcraw wrote: post #88

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories ar…

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

The article seems to operate on a different premise. In sentence 2, "At a time when the economy is growing, unemployment is low, wages are rebounding and consumers are eager to buy..."

Do you think they're looking at the wrong economic data?