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SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

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Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#191

Post by pwaai »

vpribish wrote: post #185
pwaai wrote: post #184

I'm thinking losing a billion dollar spy satellite might play a factor here. Also the timing of the US government shutdown couldn't have been more damaging.

nonsense. There is no evidence whatsoever that spacex's launch of Zuma was anything but a success. Also, in what way is this the most damaging possible timing?

then what the hell is this?

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/01/the-zuma-satellite-l...

are you saying they conspired to announce a false failure to hide the spy satellite?

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#192

Post by mch82 »

bsimpson wrote: post #60
bambax wrote: post #28

As a foreigner the whole government shutdown is a thing of wonder: how does it work exactly? For instance, is there no police anymore? How does Congress stay in session during a shutdown? Where does electricity in federal buildings come from if the Federal govt can't pay for it?

This is the thing that blew my mind last time: The shoreline of San Francisco is a national park (donated when the military base here closed). There's a restaurant on the shore called Cliff House, whose landlord is the US government. During the shutdown, the government forced the restaurant, a private establishment, to close. The owners and the kitchen staff were not allowed to make a living. And because they aren't…

Private companies also behave this way. It’s not unique to government.

If a mall shuts down, the stores don’t get to stay open. If a restaurant closes early, the waitstaff doesn’t get paid for missed hours. If budget gets tied up in other projects, competing projects get cancelled or deferred. If customer payments are late, new work & paychecks can’t be released to employees.

Edit: Also important to list the high percentage of startups that fail and layoff employees, often employees who worked under market value in exchange for equity.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#193

Post by Jtsummers »

nosequel wrote: post #137
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #32

I find this article very frustrating. What do they even mean by "key members of the civilian workforce"? I wish they'd include examples of what kind of people aren't working. Since I have absolutely no connection to this industry, I have no way of understanding the impact of a government shutdown on the space industry. Why is it considered reasonable or unreasonable that they halt certain space-related activities due…

If no on is getting paid, they aren't going into work, simple as that. This can be anyone. Fire personnel, security, gate guards, flight-line / launch pad techs & engineers, anyone. Most civilian companies barely function if the office manager is out of the building. The launch pad is private property with a ton of personnel, they can't just launch without the workers.

It's a mixed bag. Some jobs are deemed essential or exempted and so those individuals have to work. But not all are. Most of NASA, for instance, is shutdown as their work isn't considered critical or exempted.

Exempted: Usually a result of the way it's funded. Some government work is funded by the budget, directly. Others essentially pay for themselves (the government workers acting in essence as contractors or a business, they receive payments from others besides the Congress to do work). Most of those have funding that would last 2-6 weeks. They get to stay open.

None of these people were going to get paid during the shutdown, but they were still expected to work. Their paychecks after the shutdown would pay them. Essentially they're guaranteed the pay, but the pay date would slip.

Although now it's a moot point as it looks like the shutdown is ending.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#194

Post by Dylan16807 »

stcredzero wrote: post #177
jernfrost wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my native Norway, we let the public sector and private sector compete to perform public services. I can't say that I've ever seen that the private sector has a clear advantage, otherwise they would already have taken over running everything. In fact I think I know of far more cases of private companies doing considerably worse job than what the public sector did. My city recently switched to a private company for…

I can't say that I've ever seen that the private sector has a clear advantage, otherwise they would already have taken over running everything. An entity that can rig the courts, the laws, and the regulations to its favor has an advantage. Sure these are just anecdotes. But it puts a hole in the claim that the private sector is ALWAYS better. Yeah, that's just magical thinking nonsense. You have to take the situation…

> An entity that can rig the courts, the laws, and the regulations to its favor has an advantage.

You really think the garbage collection department has that much influence?

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#195

Post by Dylan16807 »

mch82 wrote: post #192
bsimpson wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing that blew my mind last time: The shoreline of San Francisco is a national park (donated when the military base here closed). There's a restaurant on the shore called Cliff House, whose landlord is the US government. During the shutdown, the government forced the restaurant, a private establishment, to close. The owners and the kitchen staff were not allowed to make a living. And because they aren't…

Private companies also behave this way. It’s not unique to government. If a mall shuts down, the stores don’t get to stay open. If a restaurant closes early, the waitstaff doesn’t get paid for missed hours. If budget gets tied up in other projects, competing projects get cancelled or deferred. If customer payments are late, new work & paychecks can’t be released to employees. Edit: Also important to list the high per…

> If a mall shuts down, the stores don’t get to stay open.

Good luck blocking access while they're still renting. I can't even plausibly imagine that happening in a strip mall, where the entrance to the store is outside. Which is the best analogy to a park.

Everything else you mentioned was about employees, which is very different from renters.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#196

Post by Taniwha »

spike021 wrote: post #189
isostatic wrote: post #182

However Rocket Lab's launch of their new Electron rocket, from New Zealand, has made it to orbit successfully. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2018/01/21/space-star...

Not sure how that launch is relevant, here.

They don't need a govt funded/owned/run launch space to launch, they built their own

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#197

Post by Taniwha »

jernfrost wrote: post #158
Clanan wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI this is a great neutral explanation up until the last paragraph, which is politically charged. This attempts to imply the Republican party sought the shutdown. In fact, the shutdown was caused by the Democratic party not voting for the Continuing Resolution (pseudo-budget). 60 Senate votes are required, but the majority party (Republicans) only has 51. It's a big slimy ball of politics all-around. Also, more on p…

Clanan, to my knowledge this is ALL Trump and the republican's fault. Until 3 weeks ago they could have passed anything they wanted. It is just because they wasted time and Trump sabotaged everything the republicans came up with that so much time passed that they reached a stage where a 60 senate vote was needed. You can't blame this on democrats when republicans could have handled this exclusively themselves and had…

What I don't understand is all this fuss about the Democrats having to vote to pay for Trump's wall, after all he promised that Mexico would pay for that, it shouldn't be a sticking point at all

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#198

Post by Retric »

Clanan wrote: post #161
jernfrost wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clanan, to my knowledge this is ALL Trump and the republican's fault. Until 3 weeks ago they could have passed anything they wanted. It is just because they wasted time and Trump sabotaged everything the republicans came up with that so much time passed that they reached a stage where a 60 senate vote was needed. You can't blame this on democrats when republicans could have handled this exclusively themselves and had…

Citations are far more helpful than ranting. If you want a productive conversation, you should provide some. Democratic leaders have made the current budget/CR about DACA, which was not relevant to it. (Ironic because they're in favor of everything in the CR, but they voted against it anyway!) Here's House minority leader Pelosi promising to block any funding that does not include DACA [0]. Yes, the Trump admin could…

Government is only funded through Feb. 8 and this reauthorizes the Children’s Health Insurance Program for six years.

So, they got something they wanted all for keeping the government operating for another 2.5 weeks. I would call it a solid democrat win.

Also republicans can pass 1 bill per year without the risk of filibuster and they used/wasted it on their tax bill. Thus, any government shutdown is arguably 100% on them.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#199

Post by fern12 »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #32

I find this article very frustrating. What do they even mean by "key members of the civilian workforce"? I wish they'd include examples of what kind of people aren't working. Since I have absolutely no connection to this industry, I have no way of understanding the impact of a government shutdown on the space industry. Why is it considered reasonable or unreasonable that they halt certain space-related activities due…

For NASA, almost all excepted employees are those involved in protection of life or property, as defined in this 1981 OMB memo:

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/furlough...

Sorry, I know it's not that detailed.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#200

Post by ars »

mikeash wrote: post #187
ars wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not what I said. I said a survey done that early is not indicative of people's true opinion. Do another survey in a month, and that data should be correct.

You used the present tense in your initial reply.

So? The survey is older than the present. The comments I've seen online and in person show that people actually do support it, which will only increase once higher paychecks arrive.

Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

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