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Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

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191–200 of 244 posts

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#191
post #44

I come from a pure HTML + CSS + JS (mostly via jQuery) background. My career has headed in a direction that focusses a lot less in the frontend web, but every 2 months or so I read one of these guides and I get giddy - "Finally, I will teach myself angular/vue/react/backbone/knockout". After about 10 minutes I am filled with dread. I expect to learn about a specific piece of software, instead, I am greeted with requi…

This is for React Native (which lets you make mobile apps), not for web, technically, but you can try learning React with https://snack.expo.io/ which is 'batteries included' and lets you write the code in the browser, no setup required at all, just a mobile app (Expo) on your phone that can load the code you're writing to display your app. No webpack, babel, grunt... involved!

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#192
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering there is easily (in US) 60-80K+/year difference between doing HTML + CSS + JS (mostly via jQuery) and say React. Spending 1 month to learn webpack + React looks like fairly sound investment of time.

One interesting question might be why the reverse isn't true: if companies could spend 60k less per head (or even 30k less per head) by hiring developers who demonstrate facility with HTML+CSS+JS+jQuery and then training them over a few weeks in webpack+React (while getting them up to speed with the particulars of their codebase, which is inevitably going to be a thing anyway), why wouldn't they do that?

Two reasons: recruiting departments head recruiting and they use keyword filtering tools to limit their nets.

The second reason is that nobody (as far as I can tell) seems to be hiring to train anymore. They just want full capacity from everyone and there’s a lot of myth out there about how an unskilled contributor can be a huge detriment.

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#193
Not really sure I get the constant Vue v React debate. They both do basically the same thing and each support almost all the concepts the other does. Both are great, neither is significantly better (after about a year full time with both in various projects).

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#194
post #44

I come from a pure HTML + CSS + JS (mostly via jQuery) background. My career has headed in a direction that focusses a lot less in the frontend web, but every 2 months or so I read one of these guides and I get giddy - "Finally, I will teach myself angular/vue/react/backbone/knockout". After about 10 minutes I am filled with dread. I expect to learn about a specific piece of software, instead, I am greeted with requi…

I learnt a lot from the article Modern JavaScript Explained For Dinosaurs [0] (featured on HN recently), which explains the history of developments from vanilla JS to 2017, "a historical context of how JavaScript tools have evolved to what they are today". I thought it was brilliant at making sense of the jungle you describe. I'm pretty sure it will remove the dread. [0] https://medium.com/the-node-js-collection/mode…

This was a good article

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm coming from a similar background and mindset but over the past few months I've been doing a lot of prototyping and some production using Vue without the build tools. I just include vue.js and use x/template scripts for the templates. It's definitley saved me hundreds of hours already.

Does this mean you use regular js and not es6?

I've dabbled but I don't use es6 much. I assume you assumed that because how the build tools allow you use es6 and compile to a lesser es. A good chunk of what I write is used by devs so I don't necessarily avoid es6 due to browser compatibility, I just haven't found there to be a ton of useful features in es6. Variable scope has never been an area of concern for me; I've always used snippets, which covers most syntactic sugar; and I definitely don't want to start using OOP in JS.

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#196
post #44

I come from a pure HTML + CSS + JS (mostly via jQuery) background. My career has headed in a direction that focusses a lot less in the frontend web, but every 2 months or so I read one of these guides and I get giddy - "Finally, I will teach myself angular/vue/react/backbone/knockout". After about 10 minutes I am filled with dread. I expect to learn about a specific piece of software, instead, I am greeted with requi…

The official React tutorial starts you out by installing create-react-app. I know that vue has something similar and I wouldn't be surprised if others did as well (are there even other important front-end frameworks besides React/Angular/Vue at the moment?) https://reactjs.org/tutorial/tutorial.html This allow you to start off with a great setup and skip the configuration so you can get started with just writing Reac…

[deleted]

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#197
post #44

I come from a pure HTML + CSS + JS (mostly via jQuery) background. My career has headed in a direction that focusses a lot less in the frontend web, but every 2 months or so I read one of these guides and I get giddy - "Finally, I will teach myself angular/vue/react/backbone/knockout". After about 10 minutes I am filled with dread. I expect to learn about a specific piece of software, instead, I am greeted with requi…

> instead, I am greeted with requirements of previous knowledge on a whole bouquet of other technologies: node, webpack, babel, grunt...

Have you looked at the standard Vue tutorial? It uses nothing but pasting code into a blank HTML page, a jsfiddle, or the tutorial page's JS console. It's extremely well-suited to someone who isn't already familiar with node/bundlers/etc. And it gives a surprisingly thorough introduction to Vue.

https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#198
post #44

I come from a pure HTML + CSS + JS (mostly via jQuery) background. My career has headed in a direction that focusses a lot less in the frontend web, but every 2 months or so I read one of these guides and I get giddy - "Finally, I will teach myself angular/vue/react/backbone/knockout". After about 10 minutes I am filled with dread. I expect to learn about a specific piece of software, instead, I am greeted with requi…

The official React tutorial starts you out by installing create-react-app. I know that vue has something similar and I wouldn't be surprised if others did as well (are there even other important front-end frameworks besides React/Angular/Vue at the moment?) https://reactjs.org/tutorial/tutorial.html This allow you to start off with a great setup and skip the configuration so you can get started with just writing Reac…

Case in point: Vue does have a vue-cli which is similar to create-react-app in intent.

However, official vue guide starts with simple examples and jsfiddle[0]

[0] https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#199
post #44

I come from a pure HTML + CSS + JS (mostly via jQuery) background. My career has headed in a direction that focusses a lot less in the frontend web, but every 2 months or so I read one of these guides and I get giddy - "Finally, I will teach myself angular/vue/react/backbone/knockout". After about 10 minutes I am filled with dread. I expect to learn about a specific piece of software, instead, I am greeted with requi…

Lots of replies here, so not sure if you will read this. If you do, I hope it will help you in your career going forward.

"Pure JS" and "Mostly via jQuery" are actually at odds with each other in your description. jQuery itself is a huge library/framework and requires at least as much specific knowledge as any of the frameworks you list. The main difference for you is that you already know it, and so it seems simple/obvious/unencumbered/whatever. Understand that when people describe their framework of choice they are coming from exactly the same place you are. Their preferred setup seems simple, obvious, reasonable and everything else is bloated, complicated, and foreign in comparison.

Especially when you are at the start of your career, or if you have had a career made up of pretty much the same thing, it's easy to see the world outside your sphere as confusing, complex and unnecessary. The computing world changes quickly, though. People complain about the JS world, but it's not really as crazy as most people make out. In my career, I've been paid to work with no less than 15 programming languages (and probably more that I'm forgetting). Each of these programming languages come with multiple ridiculous frameworks. How many X Windows widget libraries have I used? Windows? Old Mac? OS X? Java has it's own! Web frontend frameworks? Then how many DB frameworks? How many communication frameworks? How many IPC libraries? Seriously, I'm just getting started.

Programming is programming and if you don't want to be constantly learning new things, then this job is not for you. I don't for a second think that's the case ;-) Every one of us gets "new framework fatigue". This isn't Pokemon. You don't have to learn them all. However, you should keep learning new things that interest you because each one of these things has valuable ideas in it. Each one uses a technique that you can use later in your career -- even if you aren't using that framework/library. Similarly each one of these frameworks and libraries has huge drawbacks. Really understanding those drawbacks makes you a much better programmer.

I've got a lot of friends that are still DB2 programmers. Others that are MFC programmers. There's a good chance that if you are under a certain age that you don't even know what I'm talking about. They have to hang on to their jobs with a death grip because they will never get another one. Move on. Learn new things -- you don't want to be like my friends.

P.S. I have used almost everything you've listed -- except jQuery. :-D

Re: Guide to JavaScript Frameworks

#200

Whats the right choice for building a repacement for an existing app that has survived for 15 years and you want the replacement to last at least another 10? Whats the long term hedge?

Future is uncertain, next 10 years is same as next 50 years in js land. There is not hard and fast rule.

That being said, Between rolling-your-own vs Angular/React/Vue. I recommend Angular/React/Vue.

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