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A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

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Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#191

Post by underbluewaters »

evjim wrote: post #87

I spent two years living on a small permaculture farm. The place took on wwoofers and so I got to meet a ton of young people who wanted to farm. But most couldn't afford their own land, so instead they roamed around and worked nearly for free for wwoof farm owners. It's a cool program, but unfortunate land is out of reach

Every successful small farm is built on unpaid labor from what I've seen. Many are making it work and providing some value to these workers, but I shake my head seeing young college graduates working as laborers. All to get experience in a field that has so few good opportunities.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#192

Post by Clubber »

laughfactory wrote: post #126

The TLDR; is that roughly 2,000 more people in the 25-34 age group started farming, which is a roughly 2% increase. Doesn't really sound like news to me, not yet at least. I'd like to interpret it as the younger generation getting back to their roots and more connected with real stuff (where food actually comes from, getting hands dirty, that sort of thing), but 2,000 people doesn't make a wave. I hope this number co…

2% doesn't sound remarkable until you look at how agricultural jobs has dropped since 1800.

http://protecttheharvest.com/2016/01/28/why-people-fear-agri...

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#193

Post by mseebach »

jcbrand wrote: post #174
mseebach wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only intuitively makes sense -- there are quite a few assumptions. The local product is typically more expensive because it's production is less efficient (if it wasn't, it would just compete with the non-local product at regular market conditions). Being less efficient means using more inputs per output, so what is the local farmers inputs, and -- crucially -- where are those inputs made? Is he using his not-loca…

> The local product is typically more expensive because it's production is less efficient I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but I think you're leaving out some details. We know that other non-local products can be made cheaper because they are in localities that are lax on labor laws and environmental protection. So the notion that it's simply about efficiency is in my opinion a bit reductionistic. As an e…

For the purposes of this discussion, tax is a cost like any other, and subject to the same considerations: Where and on what is that money then spent? If it's spent on a Halliburton-produced armoured vehicle for the local police departments war on drugs, you and the community are probably better off buying non-local from a low-tax locality.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#194

Post by phil21 »

X86BSD wrote: post #160
ratacat wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay ten dollars a gallon for fresh non pasteurized milk from a local family that has seven cows. I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing something that is good for everyone(including the cows). It's not a lifestyle, it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future.

Reading most of the replies here reminds me the gun debate. It’s one side that has experience with said subject and the other side that has zero. And they argue. Some posters don’t believe there is any difference between eggs from a small farm where the chickens roam the yard eating naturally and Tyson sized operations where they are all cooped in a mountain together. Ethics of the two approaches aside I grew up in a…

> can take freshly laid eggs and put them in a dark coolish place like my basement on a shelf and they will last well over a month. Do that with store bought eggs. I dare you

The only reason this is true is that commercial eggs in the US are typically washed, which removes the protective impermeable membrane that both covers the egg and makes it look a little icky. In many jurisdictions is is a legal requirement.

In Europe/pretty much anywhere else in the world there are stacks of factory produced eggs sitting out on the floor/counter.

Anywhere else in the world would take your dare any time since that's exactly what they currently do :)

> There is a big difference in veg as well. So for those posters to say there is no real difference clearly have never eaten on a farm.

Grew up on/around farms as well. My parents are organic vegetable farmers.

Blind taste tests prove the difference is highly variable. Some items (tomatoes in particular) are quite obvious, other items you can tell no difference.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#195

Post by whytaka »

gamegoblin wrote: post #119
metamet wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They want to distinguish themselves and buy the feeling of authentic life and values. More than this, I think there is a substantial portion of consumers who aren't as much attempting to distinguish themselves as they are realizing how important their dollar vote is. Buying from a small or local farm keeps money circulating locally (ideally). When there is a community of local businesses, this becomes amplified. It…

Questions to someone with more economics knowledge than me: I understand the sentiment and intuitive reasoning behind this argument (I find myself thinking it every week when I go to the local farmers' market!), but is there evidence that "buying local" actually increases the local standard of living? And a followup: if it does increase the local standard of living, would this behavior, if duplicated in all communiti…

Gains from trade is maximized when traders specialize in their most productive work. When profit is reinvested, it raises the standard of living. - Econ 101

If for any reason, you truly value your neighbourhood chicken farmer Bob's livelihood though, there's no better means of buying Bob's well-being than giving money straight to Bob.

You would have to reimagine the idea of "a high standard of living" to include the comfort of knowing that Bob's well-being is sustained.

Of course it would be at the cost of excluding the welfare of people outside of your monkeysphere.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#196

Post by oliv__ »

planteen wrote: post #40
pcurve wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with first hand experience or exposure, what do you think are main reasons? I'm still amazed at how cheap food is in the U.S. (though quality just isn't there for the most part).

What do you mean by quality? Fruits and vegetables in the US tend to have much higher visual quality than elsewhere.

How is this even a question?

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#197

Post by NikolaeVarius »

jcbrand wrote: post #174
mseebach wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only intuitively makes sense -- there are quite a few assumptions. The local product is typically more expensive because it's production is less efficient (if it wasn't, it would just compete with the non-local product at regular market conditions). Being less efficient means using more inputs per output, so what is the local farmers inputs, and -- crucially -- where are those inputs made? Is he using his not-loca…

> The local product is typically more expensive because it's production is less efficient I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but I think you're leaving out some details. We know that other non-local products can be made cheaper because they are in localities that are lax on labor laws and environmental protection. So the notion that it's simply about efficiency is in my opinion a bit reductionistic. As an e…

Not in terms of just cost. In can be more efficient in terms of pollution too

http://getmoreeducation.org/Content/Modules/Module1/1_Coley_... https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/07/25/organic-vs-con...

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#198

Post by Dylan16807 »

jcbrand wrote: post #174
mseebach wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only intuitively makes sense -- there are quite a few assumptions. The local product is typically more expensive because it's production is less efficient (if it wasn't, it would just compete with the non-local product at regular market conditions). Being less efficient means using more inputs per output, so what is the local farmers inputs, and -- crucially -- where are those inputs made? Is he using his not-loca…

> The local product is typically more expensive because it's production is less efficient I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but I think you're leaving out some details. We know that other non-local products can be made cheaper because they are in localities that are lax on labor laws and environmental protection. So the notion that it's simply about efficiency is in my opinion a bit reductionistic. As an e…

> We know that other non-local products can be made cheaper because they are in localities that are lax on labor laws and environmental protection.

That can be a factor, but simply making things in bulk is a huge efficiency gain even with the exact same worker/environment protection.

And on top of that you have transportation efficiency to take into account. A remote farm can send full trailers of product to a distribution center, which then sends full trailers carrying multiple products to stores. A local farm can't send a full trailer of apples to a local store, it has to do much less efficient things.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#199

Post by dreamsdreams »

ruc0la wrote: post #18

I am doing pretty much the same. I am currently an engineering student, working part-time as a programmer. Although the job market for programmers is excellent in Europe, I bought an apple orchard (via loan) pretty close to the capital of the country where I live. Due to the proximity of the capital city, I can sell my product at a decent price and earn more than an average senior dev here. I also enjoy being outside…

This is great and I'm planning to do the same. Currently working as a software programmer but figured I can move to a tropical country and have a higher quality of rural life. However I don't know how to get started on using computer assisted agriculture to grow sweet potatoes. Do you have any recommendations of courses or resources that can help get started?

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#200

Post by icebraining »

mseebach wrote: post #163
icebraining wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free software can help with that. In my past two jobs, I've worked with a business platform which we adapt for our clients by developing custom modules, and there's a decent community of small companies from over the world which sell mostly to their internal markets but share modules under Free licenses. Of course, nobody is getting rich from this, but there are many of us making a very decent living.

It's not about that. It's about choosing not to use an existing, appropriate solution because it is not being developed and run locally. There can be valid regulatory or security reasons to choose that, I'm only considering the "keeping money local" argument.

My point is that you can keep money local without having to develop everything locally.
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