Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments • Hacker News Board

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#191

Post by smsm42 » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 9:29 PM UTC

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #167

postramus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree but I would have appreciated a more-direct response vis-a-vis Yandex. In re: your broader point I don’t think they are “that smart” per se; or perhaps better put, I think they are smart enough to be aware their platforms are used by all kinds of agents for all sorts of purposes 24/7/365...but up until now also deemed it prudent to turn a rather universal blind eye towards those activities unless the…

I had to research a bit about Yandex in order to understand the implications there. The story seems to be something like this: [1] Yandex builds an app to crawl Facebook without Facebook's permission [2] Facebook blocks Yandex [3] Yandex gets licensed access to Facebook's firehose [1] https://techcrunch.com/2013/01/11/yandex-wonder/ [2] http://www.reuters.com/article/net-us-yandex-facebook/yandex... [3] https://techc…

> There's certainly a plausible Kremlin long con here

Not very plausible if compared to other things Kremlin does. Too long, too complicated, too hollywood. The modus operandi is much simpler - you do not need complex cons if you control everything. If you can come to Yandex and demand any data you want, anytime. You just have to keep Yandex alive, they'll find a way to get data (because it's their lifeblood, they are a data organization company, like Google) and when they do, you get the data too. Simple.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#192

Post by smsm42 » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 9:57 PM UTC

pheldagryph wrote: post #80

Senate Intelligence Committee has expressed concerns that Jack Dorsey is favoring the Russian government over the United States government. Senator Tom Cotton, CIA Director John Brennan, transcript from Senate Intelligence Committee hearings on June 2016: https://www.cotton.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=414 SENATOR COTTON: I want to discuss cooperation with our Intelligence Community from Silicon Valley, specificall…

OTOH, a commercial company can sever links with foreign government agency buying their services at any time. Doing the same with US government agency is not that easy, as we know on NSA example.

So maybe the question that needs to be asked here is how come people in the US see reputation risks of cooperating with CIA as worse than ones for cooperating with Russians? Is there something that CIA and US government should be doing to fix this shameful situation?

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#193

Post by smsm42 » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 10:43 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #17

Quick, investigate pg for Russia collusion LOL. But seriously, let's put these reactions in perspective. Supposs the same was revealed the other way, about a US company having ties to the US government investing in Russian technology. We wouldn't bat an eye. This hysteria about Russian collusion makes us waste our energy and attention which is necessary to pay attention to the real issues (which I list below.) I am n…

> Compared to what the USA does on a regular basis, Russia is a pretty good actor when it comes to external dealings.

No it is not. Russia is a very bad actor when it comes to external dealings, and the reason not many in the US are aware of it is because when USSR crashed and dissolved, Russia emerged from the wreckage much weaker and not yet able to wreak major trouble like USSR could. But where it can (in its immediate vicinity) it is as bad as it always was. True, US is not idea too and does its share of mistakes. But I don't think US - at least now, not 150 years ago - would just grab a chunk of territory of another country and declare it its own because they like it. Russia does that.

But it is currently not a major threat to the US (yet?) and most investments made by it are not for nefarious purposes, at least not in the US. With all their faults, those guys like earning money too.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#194

Post by smsm42 » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 10:45 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #95

makomk wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, the US didn't annex any of those countries, which makes what it did more above-board in terms of international law than Russia's actions. Sure, a lot of those interventions ended a lot more badly than annexation, but that apparently doesn't matter.

Pfft international law. The US is in Syria against the wishes of that country. It invaded and destroyed Iraq, bombed Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen, and countless other crimes all in contempt of international law. The US occupation of Guantanamo bay for example, is contested by Cuba, who protests continuously. However the Russian annexation of Crimea was at least supported by the inhabitants. They’re both crimes of imperi…

> against the wishes of that country

You mean wishes of Asad? Given that Syria hasn't been a democracy since... well, I don't know, bronze age? "wishes of that country" is kinda nebulous term, especially right in the middle of a civil war.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#195

Post by smsm42 » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 10:48 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To anyone that has kept track of geopolitical news across the last 20 years, it is obvious that no one in Russia gets rich without the approval of Kremlin. The fact that Yuri Milner is walking the earth is sufficient evidence that he's friendly with the Kremlin. No one who managed to rise to the rank of CEO would misunderstand the unstated implication that a request from an associate of Yuri Milner is a request that…

> The fact that Yuri Milner is walking the earth is sufficient evidence that he's friendly with the Kremlin You're moving goalposts. Nobody is worried about someone being friendly with the Kremlin. Acting at their behest, however, is new and troubling. (I agree that this should have been obvious. Unfortunately, when dollars start dancing people tend to rationalize.)

What constitutes "acting at their behest" that Milner did and Saudi, Chinese, etc. foreign investors did not?

I suspect that this Red Scare is trying somehow to present doing any business with Russians as a crime, while a) avoiding to explain how it is different from doing business with Saudis, Chinese, Pakistanis, Qatarians or any other countries with centralized power structures and questionable records in freedom & human rights department; and b) trying to expose specific dealings as nefarious while neglecting to mention same dealings in other areas at all and explain why those are OK.

Since it is in fashion to bash SV now, here is an article how SV is basically owned by Putin. Do you want to look at other Russian investments, maybe? At all people getting investments linked to Russia or lobbying for Russians or having business linked to any part of Russian money? Nah, that probably would upset to many people. Let's concentrate on Silicon Valley now.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#196

Post by smsm42 » Mon, Nov 06, 2017, 10:51 PM UTC

lukasm wrote: post #24

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #19

I don't really get the hysteria. I work for an American company in San Francisco that has Tencent (practically an arm of the Chinese government) as a major investor. The number of times our CEO came in and told me that we need to implement features that benefit our geopolitical competitor is exactly zero. What precisely do all the commenters that are panicking here think happens at companies where the investors are p…

> The number of times our CEO came in and told me that we need to implement features that benefit our geopolitical competitor is exactly zero. Why would anyone told you that? Clearly, someone would told you to implement X because Y when the real reason is Z.

Thus, it is impossible to disprove that the company is really controlled by lizardoids from planet Nibiru, since if it would be, they certainly wouldn't tell you about it, so any behavior can be interpreted as caused by lizardoids, while no behavior can be interpreted as refuting this.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#197

Post by sjg007 » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 4:24 AM UTC

beambot wrote: post #161

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is startup investment by the US Govt so inept & ineffectual by comparison? It doesn't have to be effective. We're on something of an economic and technological roll, what with profit-motivated private investors who don't face political backlash when they shut down failing endeavors building on government-funded basic research.

Meanwhile, the Chinese & Russian governments are investing heavily in US tech companies (par for the course). But China is also investing heavily in domestic Robotics, AI, Energy, etc. in a way that is unfathomable by American standards. Technology dominance isn't a right... it's earned. My guess: The US government has no stomach for the power-law economic outcomes associated with innovation. Our politicians cannot s…

No you are forgetting US defense spending which is investment.. DoD, DARPA, and all of the big defense companies.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#198

Post by obmelvin » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 6:31 AM UTC

beambot wrote: post #57

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #8

Holy crap. DST Global and its affiliates have (or had in formative years) significant stakes in Facebook, Twitter, Spotify, ZocDoc, Planet Lab, Xiaomi, Stripe, Alibaba, WhatsApp and Airbnb [1]. Milner has close ties to Y Combinator [2]. It's been a deal-terms setting, behind-the-kimono peeking major investor for a decade. This is immensely scary. We've utterly failed, as an industry, to self regulate. [1] https://en.…

The thing we should really be asking: Why is startup investment by the US Govt so inept & ineffectual by comparison? What options do startups have to get government funding... the broken SBIR process?

Gov money is better spent on fundamental science and research than small business loans, well at least in the sense that if a private investor is very interested in an investment, that means it's too safe for the government. The gov should provide a different role than private money does

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#199

Post by Synaesthesia » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 9:21 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #194

Synaesthesia wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfft international law. The US is in Syria against the wishes of that country. It invaded and destroyed Iraq, bombed Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen, and countless other crimes all in contempt of international law. The US occupation of Guantanamo bay for example, is contested by Cuba, who protests continuously. However the Russian annexation of Crimea was at least supported by the inhabitants. They’re both crimes of imperi…

> against the wishes of that country You mean wishes of Asad? Given that Syria hasn't been a democracy since... well, I don't know, bronze age? "wishes of that country" is kinda nebulous term, especially right in the middle of a civil war.

Assad is not a great guy, I'm not denying that. He's a tyrant. Compared to ISIS and the extremist terrorist forces he's up against, which Russia is helping him defeat, he's not so bad. One cannot discount the government of a country just so easily. There is such a thing as international law and the US is violating it by being in Syria, which is still a sovereign state, while Russia is not.

Incidentally the US has supported far worse dictatorships, it has a terrible record in that regard.

Re: Kremlin Cash Behind Yuri Milner’s Twitter and Facebook Investments

#200

Post by lukasm » Tue, Nov 07, 2017, 11:24 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #196

lukasm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of times our CEO came in and told me that we need to implement features that benefit our geopolitical competitor is exactly zero. Why would anyone told you that? Clearly, someone would told you to implement X because Y when the real reason is Z.

Thus, it is impossible to disprove that the company is really controlled by lizardoids from planet Nibiru, since if it would be, they certainly wouldn't tell you about it, so any behavior can be interpreted as caused by lizardoids, while no behavior can be interpreted as refuting this.

That is only true if these are the only variables. If you know that lizardoids invested in the company and CEO would told you to transport uranium to Nibiru, because think-of-the-children you are more likely to question the intent.