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Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

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Re: Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

#191

Post by tedmiston »

DanBC wrote: post #148
3pt14159 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to split hairs, but the cap is 35% unless you want to replace all meals. I know we're all avant guard around here, but until fairly recently it wasn't accepted knowledge that fat wasn't as bad for you as first thought. It's understandable that regulations would take time to adjust.

> unless you want to replace all meals But that's a key point of Soylent marketing - a sole source of nutrition is something that comes up in every discussion of Soylent on HN.

Their marketing is also clear that it's not a replacement for every meal.

Re: Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

#192

Post by tedmiston »

saalweachter wrote: post #9
raquo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fat calories would be one reason. 47% in soylent vs 35% max allowed. Their announcement mentions that it failed more than one requirement, so there must be something else in addition to this.

Further down it says: "When a meal replacement is represented as a replacement for all daily meals, the maximum amount of energy from fat is reduced to 30 percent, of which no more than 10 percent may be from saturated fat. For complete composition requirements, refer to B.24.200 of the FDR." So it's actually 47% vs 30%, plus probably the additional composition requirements.

Soylent marketing clearly states that it's not intended as a replacement for all daily meals.

Though it seems slightly open to interpretation whether "all" here means "replaces every meal" or "could replace any type of meal breakfast/lunch/dinner" etc. I'm guessing the former.

Re: Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

#193

Post by sigstoat »

pumpaction wrote: post #33
cisanti wrote: post #17

Are that kind of drinks popular in North America and if, then why..? I'm having problems understanding why would anyone want to consume something like that.

It made me fart like crazy when I tried it. Felt very bloated and had some dire shits. And on top of all that, it had a rather unsatisfactory taste. I wouldn't recommend it.

FWIW if you were trying it when they were putting algal products in (1.6? 1.7?) I had similar issues, but they weren't there before the algal stuff, and went away when the algal products were removed.

Re: Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

#194

Post by nilved »

dragonwriter wrote: post #187
nilved wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply disingenuous. That's perfectly legible. Especially compared to the common practice of not posting it at all. I don't see how anyone can be upset at this.

I don't think anyone would find it noteworthy if they weren't claiming to be a champion of transparency.

Which they are, for listing it at all. Complaining that the text is a slightly lighter shade of grey betrays that.

Re: Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

#196

Post by nilved »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #185
earlyriser wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as a dark pattern or a malicious decision. Most of the stuff we buy don't explicitly say "It's not organic", "It's not allergen-free". I know they are minimizing this and putting the focus on the other column, but it looks more transparent than other companies in my opinion.

Minimizing the truth, not a dark pattern...hmmmm.

How is posting it clearly on their website minimizing the truth? As a reasonable person, don't you think that if they were trying to minimize the truth, they would just not include it like everyone else?

Re: Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

#197

Post by freeflight »

d0lph wrote: post #181
freeflight wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pharmacies, Amazon, even eBay. Afaik Fresubin 2Kcal DRINK is the highest calorie Trinknahrung from Fresenius. Amazon.com doesn't offer that many, what's there is quite expensive [0]. Never realized this stuff is so rare outside Germany, until now. In contrast, Amazon.de has a wide selection of different high caloric Trinknahrung, the Fresenius stuff even has Prime delivery [1]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_…

It looks like you are not meant to live off of Fresubin. Just 2 bottles, or 800 calories is certainly not enough. > 2 x 200ml bottles per day will provide 40g protein, 800kcal and meets the average adult recommended daily requirements for vitamins and trace-elements# (DOH 1991). You would need to drink 5 bottles to meet average calorie requirements. I don't know if there are health risks to consuming 2.5x above the d…

> It looks like you are not meant to live off of Fresubin. Just 2 bottles, or 800 calories is certainly not enough.

The DRINK bottles are designed as a supplement to the tube feed, but it's all pretty much the same stuff with the main difference being that DRINK is flavored for oral consumption.

> I don't know if there are health risks to consuming 2.5x above the daily requirements, but it was clearly not designed to be a total meal replacement.

There ain't and it is. How do you think people with jaw/throat issues keep on eating? Larynx cancer is very common, just like many other cancer types directly affecting the mechanical ability to chew/swallow. I've patients living only on that stuff for over 10 years, still living.

Tbh I'm kinda surprised how skeptical you seem of something which has seen decades-long successful medical application [0] and has its roots in NASA research for astronaut nutrition, which rates among the most solid food-science we have.

Fresubin 2Kcal DRINK isn't the only variety, Fresenius has literally dozens of other varieties for the sole purpose of adapting the diet to the patient from low caloric, to fibre, to diabetic, pretty much all the manufacturers do because peoples nutritional needs are individual.

And that's just enteral, going parenteral you can get all your food/water/nutrients from 1-2 infusions per day. Tho the port [1] used for such applications is still a pretty big infection risk.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_food

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_(medical)

Re: Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

#198

Post by podzyx »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #112
mful wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 30% cap on calories from fat is pretty ridiculous in my view. Even if you don't buy into the idea that fat is healthful, there is plenty of science that indicates it is, and so at least CIFA should not regulate fat content in this way. Sidenote: I don't drink Soylent and have no idea if it fails the fat content. I'm in the "Soylent is not healthful" camp, if it matters.

In general, it's been pretty well accepted in Canada that fats should take a higher priority and we should reduce our overall carbohydrate consumption in a healthy diet. [0] The alternative to this being athletes. We had to carbo-load the night before a game/race/etc -- but not on the regular. I think those caps are meant to nudge people in the direction of getting their nutrients from non-processed food sources. It'…

I do not understand how the sources you provided result in the conclusion that 'fats should take higher priority' in a healthy diet. Much of the recent literature suggests that too much fat in the diet can result in a higher concentration of Intramyocellular Lipids (fat in the cells), this has been shown to increase insulin resistance (resulting in +ce instances of type 2 diabetes) [0].

In addition, the blue zone study (largest epidemiological study ever conducted on human health) concluded that diets rich in whole grains, starchy root vegetables, legumes, fruits, nuts and seeds proved to result in the lowest instances of diet related diseases (heart attach, stroke, diabetes, alzheimers) and was found to increase longevity.

"From this There is abundant evidence that increased levels of plasma lipids, predominantly free fatty acids (FFAs) and triglycerides, are causally involved in IR" (insulin resistance)

Sources: http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/52/1/138

Re: Soylent can no longer ship to Canada

#200

Post by CodeWriter23 »

nilved wrote: post #196
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimizing the truth, not a dark pattern...hmmmm.

How is posting it clearly on their website minimizing the truth? As a reasonable person, don't you think that if they were trying to minimize the truth, they would just not include it like everyone else?

I’m not commenting on the posting on the website, I’m parsing the parent post’s assertion, wherein (s)he said they didn’t think using grey to minimize facts presented was a dark pattern. I question that logic. Obfuscation is a dark pattern IMO, even if gently applied (like in this case) because using any method to downplay facts is a deterrent to knowing the truth.
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