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Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

nytimes.com

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Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#191

Post by avar »

dmix wrote: post #176
avar wrote: post #6

For reasons I won't go into the farming lobby is really strong in Iceland. Sheep run free-range around the entire island, if you'd like to grow something that sheep like to eat you need to fence it in. It's not like pretty much anywhere else in the western world where people who own grazing animals need to fence them in. Thus the sheep range far and wide and destroy Iceland's native low-lying forests. Iceland's nativ…

I'm confused, there's no private property laws to prevent farm animals from grazing on non-farm property? Nor is there crown land to build national parks with giant forests? An effective farm lobby wouldn't be able to affect either of those things in almost any other western countries... The problem doesn't seem to be the lobbyist but some strange lack of fundamental laws, if the government can be coerced into allowi…

First of all you have to understand that private property in Scandinavia and Iceland works differently than it does in say the US. It's more appropriately phrased as a "limited land-use right", and the land use is always for a particular narrow purpose.

So for example, if you buy a farm and put a fence around it I'm still free to walk across your property to get to where I'm going, because farms are intended for farming, and as long as I'm not unduly interrupting that you have no standing to stop me. I can also set up a tent overnight on your farm as long as I don't unduly bother you, i.e. set it up too close to your house, I need to pick up all my trash etc.

Now, back to your question. During the summer the sheep wander around and graze on any grass they can find, and due to precedence going back to colonization (where everyone who mattered was sheep farmer anyway) if you'd like them not to do that it's your responsibility to set up a fence around your property, and of course the sheep are likely to start eating there first since sheep are lazy and go for the easy pickings first.

But this only applies to sheep, not e.g. cows, and that's entirely to do with ongoing lobbying not just by the farming industry, but people in rural areas that hold disproportionate sway in parliament.

There are successful reforestation efforts going on in Iceland, but most of these are in park-like areas near municipalities. There's not enough money being spent on this to fence wast swaths of land.

But yes, you could of course buy land, fence it off, and start planting trees on it. But that's expensive and not very lucrative, so very few farmers are doing that to make money.

There are big national parks, but they're almost all in areas that would be the last to regain any topsoil, i.e. in the highlands around glaciers.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#192

Post by mark-r »

vitro wrote: post #187

I've seen a write up of a test where tons of orange peels have been dumped and spread over big area [1]. After 16 years, ecologists returned only to find abundant flora at the areas covered with peels. Maybe to try this approach? [1] http://www.upworthy.com/a-juice-company-dumped-orange-peels-...

Great idea! Only problem is the need for large quantities of bio-waste that can be economically transported to the site.

This also seems like a zero-sum problem, since the soil where the orange peels were grown is probably declining in proportion to the gains it produced elsewhere.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#193

Post by Sharlin »

guelo wrote: post #118
mitchtbaum wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Etymology of desert: from Latin desertus, from desero (“abandon”) From dē- (“away, from”) +‎ serō (“I bind, join”). From Proto-Italic sizō, from Proto-Indo-European si-sh₁-, the reduplicated present of *seh₁- (“to sow”). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desert#Etymology_3 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desero#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sero#Latin

In verb and adjective form anything can be deserted, a husband deserting his wife, a deserted village. In noun form I've heard of things like food deserts to describe urban area without grocery or restaurants. Also places like Antartica are sometimes described as deserts. Also ocean deserts to describe areas without fish.

Antarctica is a desert by the strict "low precipitation" definition. The Dry Valleys are some of the driest places on Earth.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#194

Post by kibwen »

avn2109 wrote: post #171
mywittyname wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they were allowed to hunt deer, it probably wouldn't help. So much of the land deer graze over in the Midwest is suburban and have laws in place regarding setting off a firearm. This limits hunting to public lands, of which, there might be 2-3 within an hour drive of the city. So no matter how much the hunters kill, they aren't likely to effect the populations in the surrounding suburbs. There are more huntin…

This problem is widespread in the urban areas of my rural, pro-firearms home state. They solved it by hiring sharpshooters to kill the deer with rifles at night within city limits. It worked really well and they gave a ton of meat to the food bank.

Which state is this? I'm surprised anyone would authorize hunting in an urban environment at all, given the risk of collateral damage. Just because you've shot the deer precisely doesn't guarantee the bullet isn't going to fully penetrate and keep on going.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#195

Post by kibwen »

maehwasu wrote: post #158
mywittyname wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they were allowed to hunt deer, it probably wouldn't help. So much of the land deer graze over in the Midwest is suburban and have laws in place regarding setting off a firearm. This limits hunting to public lands, of which, there might be 2-3 within an hour drive of the city. So no matter how much the hunters kill, they aren't likely to effect the populations in the surrounding suburbs. There are more huntin…

There are tons of solutions that aren't hunting, but animal rights activists are just as shrill about those.

Where are these animal rights activists? I'm from PA, the state with more deer than any other, where the white-tailed deer is the official state animal, and I've never seen anyone shed a single tear over a deer hunt.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#196

Post by [deleted] »

mitchtbaum wrote: post #46
kobeya wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The etymology of the word (think deserted island) would imply it has more to do with the lack of life than the reason for a lack of life.

Etymology of desert: from Latin desertus, from desero (“abandon”) From dē- (“away, from”) +‎ serō (“I bind, join”). From Proto-Italic sizō, from Proto-Indo-European si-sh₁-, the reduplicated present of *seh₁- (“to sow”). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desert#Etymology_3 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desero#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sero#Latin

[deleted]

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#197

Post by quotemstr »

mitchtbaum wrote: post #46
kobeya wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The etymology of the word (think deserted island) would imply it has more to do with the lack of life than the reason for a lack of life.

Etymology of desert: from Latin desertus, from desero (“abandon”) From dē- (“away, from”) +‎ serō (“I bind, join”). From Proto-Italic sizō, from Proto-Indo-European si-sh₁-, the reduplicated present of *seh₁- (“to sow”). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desert#Etymology_3 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desero#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sero#Latin

Right. That's the sense (solitude) of "desert" in Tacitus's famous quip about the Romans: "they make a desert and call it peace".

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#198

Post by vanattab »

kibwen wrote: post #133
durgiston wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NE also went from 30% forest to 70% open/farming land to 70% forest 30% open in about 100 years as agriculturalism gave way to industrialization. So that could also contribute to giving deer more cover/habitat. Also we killed all the wolves east of the Mississippi 50 years, and coyotes have yet to fill their niche.

> The NE also went from 30% forest to 70% open/farming land to 70% forest 30% open in about 100 years as agriculturalism gave way to industrialization. Source? It would surprise me to see that many people voluntarily give up their farmland rather than, say, selling it to industrial farmers or real estate developers.

It's because it was never really good farm land to begin with. With the advent of the Erie canal, railroads, and industrial farming techniques the competition from the really excellent farm lands of the Midwest made farming NE rocky terrain impractical.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#199

Post by Tiktaalik »

skj wrote: post #70
ainiriand wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find quite interesting how we plan on terraform and colonize Mars when we can't even grow trees on Iceland.

The farm lobby isn't standing in the way of terraforming Mars.

Hmm you should read the Red/Green/Blue Mars series. A good sci fi series that deals with Mars terraforming, in which a major plot element are colonists opposed to terraforming.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#200

Post by ficklepickle »

irrational wrote: post #149
NegativeLatency wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose wolves wouldn't be popular in a suburban environment either.

There are tons of coyotes in suburban environments though. I live smack dab in the middle of the suburbs and we have see coyotes all the time.

We have an urban coyote population in Vancouver. It's very strange seeing a coyote in the city. I was 20 feet away, once. They are amazingly beautiful creatures.
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