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The Depression Thing

zachholman.com

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Re: The Depression Thing

#191

Post by abalone »

Not a sufferer myself but I really enjoyed the book Rob Delaney: Mother. Wife. Sister. Human. Warrior. Falcon. Yardstick. Turban. Cabbage.[1] Very funny but also touches on his severe, near-fatal depression and alcoholism in an enlightened manner. Talks about medication, how he talked himself into getting help, the unfathomable experience of clinical depression itself, lots of the things Holman mentions. Now he's the "funniest guy on Twitter" and has a brilliant show on the BBC / Amazon (Catastrophe).

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Rob-Delaney-Warrior-Yardstick-Cabbage...

Re: The Depression Thing

#192

Post by BeetleB »

Nav_Panel wrote: post #66
jlg23 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful with that advice. It might have been good for you, it might be good for a lot of depressive people, but definitely not for all. Before I turned twenty I met two people my age who took your advice and exercised until ambulances had to pick them up (literally). Whatever you do to counter your depression, have a trustworthy, knowledgeable aid at your side: a therapist.

This is an almost absurd criticism ("be careful telling people to sleep, people I know who were depressed followed that advice and slept for 12-14 hours every day"). Let's fix it by being more specific, so we don't accidentally cause any more problems: "daily moderate-intensity cardiovascular exercise" (or, if you prefer, "resistance training 3x week"). Or even, "a healthy level of exercise". I agree that therapy is…

I agree it was phrased poorly. What I took him to mean is:

If you have depression, and regular exercise and good diet doesn't help you, look for other solutions.

Too many people assume that getting the right balance of both will solve the problem, so they keep tweaking and tweaking the wrong solution.

Re: The Depression Thing

#193

Post by jrowley »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #144
jlg23 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful with that advice. It might have been good for you, it might be good for a lot of depressive people, but definitely not for all. Before I turned twenty I met two people my age who took your advice and exercised until ambulances had to pick them up (literally). Whatever you do to counter your depression, have a trustworthy, knowledgeable aid at your side: a therapist.

This is the most ridiculous and irrelevant warning I can imagine. Almost nobody us at risk of over exercising if they haven't started yet. It's like saying "Don't eat salad, I know someone that ate so much lettuce they got sick."

It's easy to become dependent on exercising, push too hard, get injured, and struggle while you can't exercise. Moderation can be difficult for some of us even with something like running.

Re: The Depression Thing

#194

Post by baus »

gt_ wrote: post #87

Just some mellow "Brain Shock" side effects and he was on his way. Terrifying.

I assume the drug here is Venlafaxine/Effexor or another SNRI. I've had similar effects when withdrawing from SNRIs.

Re: The Depression Thing

#195

Post by cflewis »

Swizec wrote: post #145
ThrowawayP wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Changing your lifestyle to treat depression works. I did (and am still doing) all of those lifestyle changes and it didn't help me in the slightest. So much for that theory. Not that people shouldn't try lifestyle changes but they are not the magic cure-all you're selling them as.

That’s awesome! Keep at it. It takes a few years. And as other have pointed out, depression isn’t super curable, it’s more like going in remission. I liken it to addiction as well. Stop doing the things that keep it at bay? Boom there it is, comes right back. Just like an addict makes an active decision every day to not do their thing, so too must I actively do things that keep the depression away. No magic, just har…

Dude, screw you.

Seriously.

The biggest screw up we all make about mental health is the assumption that the thing that works for one person is the thing that works for another. I would have hoped that someone who has been through treatment would understand that, but here you are spouting the "get your life in order and it'll all be dandy, it worked for me!" crap that's so unhelpful in the first place to people with mental illness.

Everyone is different with this stuff. Everyone needs different treatment. You are not a mental health professional. Do not say shit like this and not expect to be called on it.

Re: The Depression Thing

#196

Post by eradicatethots »

Nav_Panel wrote: post #172
johnny99 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you need a therapist and/or meds to figure out that you need to (or even can) figure it out, and it's possible to overdo just about anything, certainly including exercise and sleep. Depression puts you at the bottom of a well, and by definition not thinking clearly. You're dangerously close to telling people to just deal with it on their own, which is harmful and cold.

Certainly. I have been in the position before where I was at the bottom of my own personal pit and was unable to begin exercising on my own (severely depressed and obese, not a great combination to begin an exercise program). It's not an easy thing to get started doing _anything_ when you're depressed, habits are hard to change. People shouldn't be expected to change these things (purely) on their own, as a lot is a…

No need to treat depressed people like children and withhold info about risks. They’re still humans after all.

Re: The Depression Thing

#197

Post by sliverstorm »

SnowingXIV wrote: post #56
ElatedOwl wrote: post #15

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

It's also a viscous cycle once you stop doing these things. I had everything going well for me, but then a bunch kinda blew up at once and I stopped eating healthy, quit working out, and was losing sleep because I was trying to solve all these other problems and felt those things were pointless. "Oh, I can't get in the mindset to lift today I'm too stressed out and depressed/hopeless." That led me from only skipping…

A viscous cycle? [https://cdn1.medicalnewstoday.com/content/images/articles/31...]

Sorry, not a grammar nazi, this one just always makes me grin :)

Re: The Depression Thing

#198

Post by Swizec »

cflewis wrote: post #195
Swizec wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s awesome! Keep at it. It takes a few years. And as other have pointed out, depression isn’t super curable, it’s more like going in remission. I liken it to addiction as well. Stop doing the things that keep it at bay? Boom there it is, comes right back. Just like an addict makes an active decision every day to not do their thing, so too must I actively do things that keep the depression away. No magic, just har…

Dude, screw you. Seriously. The biggest screw up we all make about mental health is the assumption that the thing that works for one person is the thing that works for another. I would have hoped that someone who has been through treatment would understand that, but here you are spouting the "get your life in order and it'll all be dandy, it worked for me!" crap that's so unhelpful in the first place to people with m…

> "get your life in order and it'll all be dandy, it worked for me!"

No it won’t all be dandy. But it helps.

Or at least it’s what I’ve seen help the most people I know who are or have been depressed. At the end of the day, the main thing to do is to not give in to depression.

That thing wants you to sit on the couch and feel sorry for yourself. That’s like one of the main symptoms. Fighting that urge helps make it go away eventually.

I mean, shit, even the super-OP, Zach whose post we're commenting on, said that he had to keep taking meds and going to therapy for a few months before he saw results. Do you think doing it just once then saying "Fuck this shit, this doesn't work for me, therapy doesn't work. I tried it and it did nothing". Do you think that would've worked?

Re: The Depression Thing

#199

Post by stevewillows »

eswat wrote: post #176

health insurance problems (yay 🇺🇸, home of the brave, land of the shit health system) Not sure about other countries with universal healthcare, but seeking therapy for depression in Canada isn’t exactly that much better. Such treatments aren’t covered by public health insurance so you’ll be spending $100/hr CAD, likely more, out-of-pocket. When I sought therapy, and this is probably due to unfortunate timing or bei…

Check with your local mental health outpatient care. They most likely have a 10 week CBT group program. You'll also most likely be assigned to a staff psychiatrist or therapist.

I did the program through my local outpatient, and it was awesome. It wasn't a total fix, but it did help me to become aware of some toxic patterns, triggers, and responses.

In BC there are other groups after the 10 week course that are offered during the day, but that's not realistic for most people.

Re: The Depression Thing

#200

Post by brookside »

jlg23 wrote: post #47
ElatedOwl wrote: post #15

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

Careful with that advice. It might have been good for you, it might be good for a lot of depressive people, but definitely not for all. Before I turned twenty I met two people my age who took your advice and exercised until ambulances had to pick them up (literally). Whatever you do to counter your depression, have a trustworthy, knowledgeable aid at your side: a therapist.

I've tried to find help for something like depression for almost two decades from therapy. As much as I have wanted it to be, I haven't found therapy to be particularly powerful.

Running is weak also, but insomuch as all you can do is fight and claw your way out of depression[^], long runs, in my experience, can aid to some degree.

[^]Which may very well be a symptom of something(s) we don't understand yet, rather than a disease.

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