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Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

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Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#191
post #190

I've been trying to use bing as a primary and google as a backup for a few months now. IME, Bing is good 60-70% of the time, but often times I'm exploratory-searching and bing is pretty much useless here. Google, manages to somehow find the right link, especially when I am guessing the keywords. On a side note, Google often tells me theres million+ results (e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=SIEMENS+pc+based+automa…

I went all the way to page 10. At the bottom, it reads :

In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 100 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#192
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't care about it's users' privacy. It only ever started making a big deal about privacy when people started criticizing Google for hoarding too much personal info and using it to target ads, which people think is evil. Apple doesn't do these things (it's not Apple's business model), so they began heavily marketing "privacy" as something you'd get from them and not the competition. They make sort of okay at…

Disagree strongly. Apple pays a serious price for their privacy stance, which they would rather not pay. Doing machine learning on-device makes it less effective. Apple's directions aren't as good as they could be because Maps randomly segments trips and masks its users identity. Apple's App Store revenues are lower because they limit how apps can identify users. This difference is deeper than business models. Compar…

There are further examples that Apple takes privacy seriously: 1) end-to-end encryption of all iMessages 2) encrypted iCloud content 3) making password management accessible to a lot of people who would not pursue it otherwise (with Keychain) 4) attempting MAC address randomization to prevent WiFi tracking, though from this paper [1] it appears to be broken.

Having worked there for a time, in my opinion privacy is deeply ingrained in the company culture. Much easier solutions are avoided if they sacrifice the customer's privacy. Further, it seems many of the decisions are made to minimize the amount of information required at each step to the absolute essentials. These concerns permeate internal technical discussions -- it is not just marketing materials.

They also have pretty extensive privacy materials on their website [2, 3]. While that may not be useful to the HN crowd, hopefully it makes privacy more accessible to some segment of their customers who actually read it.

References: [1] PDF warning: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.02874.pdf [2] https://www.apple.com/privacy/approach-to-privacy/ [3] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#193
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And one wonders why it is impossible for a new search engine to get started :-) When Google started paying over a billion dollars a year to buy search traffic it was pretty clear that it was not going to be possible to grow a new full stack search engine organically. Now they are over $4B/year buying traffic, its pretty crazy.

I believe that when it comes to search, the aim should not be about competing with Google in it's current form. That is impossible. The aim should be to change the architecture of search such that it becomes a commodity that anyone can plug into. Like what open source CMSes did to the AOL/Time Warner giant. Then the owners of this commoditized search can charge for their premium API on a usage basis, transforming sea…

I think that is an excellent vision but to understand the challenge of achieving it consider how a search engine has to operate. Typically it 'shards' the index of all available documents into chunks, where the necessary descriptive bits for a chunk can fit in the memory of a dense memory server. Then each server returns its "best" result which are collected, and from there the top 10 are selected.

Search needs to be fast. When you click search you want the page to then pop up with your 10 blue links. The physics of light suggest that your index files all need to be close together, both physically and with high bandwidth to support a couple of round trips for distributing the query and returning the results.

While I learned how search worked while I worked at Google, it was a brilliant engineer named Keith Peterson at Blekko (now at Google :-) who taught me some of the more subtle issues involved in balancing indexes, shards, and query processing in order to maximize utilization.

That requirement of closeness and high bandwidth, makes federation hard. Even forwarding a search to Bing (via the Yahoo APIs) to check for additional "long tail" results really challenges your ability to deliver fast results.

Unlike CMSes where they could run independently in parallel, search is a 'talk to everyone all the time' sort of problem, you don't know apriori which indices may have relevant documents (which is why it is called "search" ;-))

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#194
post #191
post #190

I've been trying to use bing as a primary and google as a backup for a few months now. IME, Bing is good 60-70% of the time, but often times I'm exploratory-searching and bing is pretty much useless here. Google, manages to somehow find the right link, especially when I am guessing the keywords. On a side note, Google often tells me theres million+ results (e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=SIEMENS+pc+based+automa…

I went all the way to page 10. At the bottom, it reads : In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 100 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included.

Yeah, but that still doesn't show all the supposedly millions of results. Last time I checked it was capped at a few hundred (not this specific query).

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the form was an official Apple form for repairs. they are going to replace my keyboard and screen. they said they needed the password to test. I asked why not just boot from a USB drive and they said they could not do that. I didn't ask why they couldnt just swap a drive for testing. they didn't offer this option I had to suggest it but basically I'll have to reformat the drive before taking it in for service.

Create a separate account for them, and make sure you have FileVault turned on so your home folder is encrypted. I've managed to get this concept across to authorised repairers who don't speak english (and I don't speak Thai).

I hate to break it to you, but unless you store your home folder on a separate encrypted partition (which would be really inconvenient), this won't work.

FileVault 2 encrypts your entire boot volume, so there's no separate encryption of your home folder going on. If you give someone any of the passwords that unlock the boot volume, they could get all of the data off it (by using target disk mode or booting to single user mode, etc.)

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#196
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And one wonders why it is impossible for a new search engine to get started :-) When Google started paying over a billion dollars a year to buy search traffic it was pretty clear that it was not going to be possible to grow a new full stack search engine organically. Now they are over $4B/year buying traffic, its pretty crazy.

I am not a legal expert, but at what point does the DoJ step and investigate Google for monopolizing 'search'.

When they start abusing it. Just being a monopoly isn't illegal

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#197
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about Google, but about Apple being privacy-oriented. The argument is that people wouldn't call Apple privacy-oriented if it weren't for its competitors like Google being even worse in that regard.

How is your reply diminishing Apple's stance on privacy? Yes, people do compare and choose based on their priorities (and wallets). That's how competition works, isn't it? So again, I fail to see how your comment changes anything. Of course people compare products.

> How is your reply diminishing Apple's stance on privacy?

It isn't, it is diminishing some people's view on Apple's stance on privacy.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#198
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can have at least one customer even it is overpriced (e. g. if Apple sold the iPhone X for $10,000, it's very like that still at least one person buys it, it definitely would be overpriced though). It's overpriced if you could make more revenue by lowering the price.

> and profitability numbers

I was referring to the "Not if they are selling products at te price offered. If they were OVER priced, they would sell zero. If a good is above the price people are willing to pay, they will sell zero. Clearly, that is not the case. An economic nitpick to be sure but factual." part, not arguing about Apple's case.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Or just enable the guest account. That's what I always do.

I assume they might want admin permissions honestly. Having said that, prior to my recent visit (failing mbp fan) my trips had always been for failing/failed discrete graphics (about 5 trips on 2 different generations of 17" mbp) so a reinstall is inevitable because making macOS work properly after a mainboard replacemnt is more work than reinstalling from scratch

It so easy to get admin rights on a Mac anyway.

- Boot into single user mode...

# mount -uw /

# rm /var/db/.AppleSetupDone

# reboot

Reboot the machine and it walks you through a re-run of setting up the OS X set up assistant, which allows creation of an admin account.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#200
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, there are two commonly used english indexes, Bing and Google. Yandex has one but they closed their local data center so it has a lot of lag getting to it from the US. Tsignal [1] claims to be building their own index, which if they are would mean there was a third index to choose from. [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/31/deepsearch_tsignal/

People seem surprised, but it's perfectly predictable. To maintain an index of sufficient quality and size costs billions of dollars a year. Heck, engineering cost alone is probably $500M for MS, and more for Google. DGG doesn't even come close to having the table stakes to play this game. Another area where table stakes are incredibly high is geo (maps).

Actually, at Blekko it cost us about $2M/year to hold an index with 5 billion documents, it would have cost use less than $10M/year to hold an index of 10 billion documents (this is suggested by many to be the 'sweet spot' of coverage) to have that many documents you will create a crawl frontier of between 500B and 1T URIs.
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