Why Germans pay cash for almost everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#191

Post by egeozcan » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:48 PM UTC

DougWebb wrote: post #158

egeozcan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit card is pretty equivalent to cash, though. When my friends and family from my hometown (Istanbul) visit me the first time, they are usually quite shocked that most shops here do not accept credit cards at all. In Turkey (a place I call micro-USA), many credit cards automatically divide the payments for some transactions to 3+ months, whereas here in Germany, there's always some bureaucracy involved, even if you…

I've never heard of anything like the dividing of payments you're describing. Are you saying that the CC company doesn't pay the merchant all at once, by default? That seems really shady. They should either have enough capital to pay the merchant in-full right away, or they should pay the merchant the interest they're collecting from the buyer if they buyer isn't paying the CC bill in full each month.

The bank pays the full amount immediately, unless they have a special agreement with the seller. You get different treatment according to your CC provider. Here is an example: http://www.gold.com.tr/BankaKampanya.aspx (Turkish). "Peşin fiyatına 3 Ay taksit" means "3 months payments without interest". They usually inflate the price beforehand to account for such payments, so you are disincentivized to use a debit card or to pay in cash. Such tactics are fought against by the national banking organization but they always find another way (like having ridiculously low, "symbolic" interests for specific sellers/goods). The whole situation used to be grim when I left Turkey many years ago, but I don't imagine it being better now.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#192

Post by metafunctor » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:49 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #141

I suspect the main reason is that in a safe country like Germany people feel more comfortable carrying around large amounts of cash. Japan is extraordinarily cash-oriented, but it works because people don't get mugged; even if you leave your wallet on a train you can expect to get it back with all the cash still inside.

Lots of countries that are very safe use mostly cards instead of cash. Like the all of the Nordics.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#193

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:49 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #138

fleg wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contactless payments don't need PIN (up to some small but comfortable amount) and go through almost instantly.

But Germans don't trust contactless payment because in theory anybody could hold a card reader against your wallet while you're innocently waiting in some line.

[deleted]

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#194

Post by patrickk » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:50 PM UTC

killercup wrote: post #40

It's funny that Lidl, the store in the picture at the top of the article, is one of the stores I always pay with debit card in Germany. They have great NFC support and don't give a damn if I pay my 79¢ bread with card.

Chains like Lidl are competing in the ultra-competitive German discount supermarket sector (Germans loooove discount chains, there are so many in Germany, and the price of groceries is therefore cheap on average), so it makes sense they'd be quick to deploy it.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#195

Post by TillE » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:51 PM UTC

aembleton wrote: post #184

antouank wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say hello to contactless https://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-contactless/ Standard on most bank cards in the UK. No pin or anything. Tap it on the machine and you go. Takes 2 seconds at most. Still, I do hold cash sometimes, you do need it in some cases.

I'm sure I've used this in Germany many times at Lidl and other supermarkets.

NFC payment has been rolling out more and more over the past couple years. Edeka is probably the biggest exception, I'm waiting very impatiently for them to catch up.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#196

Post by bittercynic » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:52 PM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #74

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

Interesting. At least in my experience in the us, people paying cash is much, much slower than using credit or debit. All it takes is one customer paying cash to turn a fast register into a storefront-filling queue.

In my US experience, the variation from customer to customer is much larger than the difference between cash and card. You can be pretty fast or very slow with either method.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#197

Post by herbst » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:53 PM UTC

antouank wrote: post #171

wongarsu wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a German supermarket there are two notable differences: People pay with rounded bills most of the time, cashiers are fast at returning change (amounts are usually a single cent below the full euro for each item, so change isn't a big problem). The credit card workflow requires you to sign as well (or alternatively sometimes your pin if it's a debit card). Also, no swiping, only chip readers. So in essence, taking…

Say hello to contactless https://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-contactless/ Standard on most bank cards in the UK. No pin or anything. Tap it on the machine and you go. Takes 2 seconds at most. Still, I do hold cash sometimes, you do need it in some cases.

It's super fun and easy. But

A) there is a risk as everyone can create a stripe account and buy a charger. Personally I would never notice.

B) every transaction creates costs. Some visible (depit charging fee) some hidden (credit transaction fee)

C) At least in most of Europe it is far from widely supported, even thought it's growing for a while now. Except you stick to the most touristy places that is. In south east Asia I haven't seen it at all except in tourist focused places.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#198

Post by celticninja » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:53 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #131

codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

In a German supermarket there are two notable differences: People pay with rounded bills most of the time, cashiers are fast at returning change (amounts are usually a single cent below the full euro for each item, so change isn't a big problem). The credit card workflow requires you to sign as well (or alternatively sometimes your pin if it's a debit card). Also, no swiping, only chip readers. So in essence, taking…

Plus, when paying by card even if you dont want a receipt you need to wait for the merchant receipt to be printed out before the transaction is complete. With cash if you dont need the receipt and pay the correct sum you can be on your toes.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#199

Post by germanier » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:53 PM UTC

Jommi wrote: post #130

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

Don't you guys have paywave for under 25e purchases? Its literally 5 seconds to pay for anything. Literally no one uses cash in Helsinki. I can even use my phone's NFC as a payment option.

We have and pretty much all supermarkets accept that. Doesn't mean that cashiers have even heard of it (even pointing to the huge signs advertising that at the register surprises some) or customers are aware of it. It doesn't help that the national debit card scheme Girocard hadn't had working contactless payment until recently (which is the type of card most customers use).

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#200

Post by tomatsu » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:55 PM UTC

Paying with cash is faster.

Inserting your card, entering your pin, waiting a bit, getting some receipt printed, and finally signing it does take significantly longer than getting the right amount of change from a cashier who is used to doing this.

Paying with a debit card always makes you look a bit like a twat. It's similar to paying with a handful of coins.