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Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

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Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#191

Post by notfromhere »

taway_1212 wrote: post #21
othello wrote: post #14

The surprising fact here is that this can mostly be explained pretty well as the lessons of WW2 still being vivid in the memory of many countries...except that Russia suffered by far the most of any countries on the Western front, and still a majority there would fight a war for their own country. The persistent glorification of Russia's role in WW2 (although historically justified) might have something to do with it…

> The amputation of a quarter of Russia's territory Soviet Union is (was) not Russia, it was a multinational empire, similar to Roman or Mongol Empries. AFAIK, Russia itself did not loose much (any?) territory after 1989.

Russians largely saw the Soviet Union as an extension of Russian power. Hence all the russification that occured in non-Russian majority republics

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#192

Post by andrewla »

I can't seem to find any more details on the survey other than basic methodology. The thing that I'm curious about is the language used in the survey.

In a sense, you could argue that some of the disparity in results comes from what people would interpret as the meaning of "fight for your country", but I'm curious as to whether the ambiguity of this phrase (fight at the behest of my country, fight to defend my country, fight to defend my country's "honor"?) carries over into foreign translations and whether that affects the way the question is interpreted.

Or it is possible that the underlying question was more specific to avoid these linguistic ambiguities, and we are seeing a "digestion" of the various more specific questions.

If someone can dig up a link to more detailed survey results, I'd be interested in seeing it. All the link in the article leads to is a press release about the results.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#193

Post by notfromhere »

0xbear wrote: post #38

Understandable. Germany has experienced crushing, humiliating defeat not once, but twice in a hundred years, and the second time it was abundandtly clear that they were on the wrong side of history. No wonder the fightin' spirit hasn't recovered. That said, when certain substances start hitting the fan, no one will ask you whether you want to fight. Read some WW2 memoirs: the shit was so horrific that even hardened p…

The allies kinda spent the last ~70 years pacifying Germany so thoroughly that they're not interested in war. All of the German militarism and military adventurism within the armed forces is largely gone

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#194

Post by notfromhere »

davissorenson wrote: post #53
simo7 wrote: post #15

I think a strong pattern here is: the more cultural/social homogeneity the more willingness to fight a war for your country. See Italy, Spain, Belgium for instance: people from different area of those countries really feel belonging to different cultures. Contrari to the Nordic & Easter European ones. In Germany is more of a historical thing instead.

Finland and Denmark have mandatory military service for males. Sweden got rid of mandatory military service in 2010, then reinstated it in 2016. Norway currently has "weak conscription" in that recruits are not forced to serve. Latvia was a part of the Soviet Union a generation ago, and had conscription until 2005. So what all those countries have in common is that a large portion of the male population has actual mi…

And are next to Russia (except Denmark)

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#195

Post by democracy »

Spooky23 wrote: post #175

Good for them. The reality of modern war is that there isn't a lot of room beyond modern imperial proxy warfare in places like Syria and Afghanistan. WW3 in Europe means that most of Europe will be a smoking hole.

Most of the world, I would say.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#196

Post by biggerbistro »

mnm1 wrote: post #69
draugadrotten wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some European countries, like Sweden, now have 25% of residents with a motherland which is not the country they live in. Would an Afhan boy living in Sweden fight for Sweden, or would he just take a flight back home to his real motherland? Would an American living in Germany fight for Germany, or take the next flight home? I think we all know the answer, and therefore large parts of the people living on European soil…

Yup, I totally agree. As an immigrant, I sure as hell wouldn't fight for either of the countries I'm a citizen of or any other for that matter. The whole idea of fighting for your country is stupid, idiotic, and frankly insane, especially if there is an alternative. It seems to me even natives, especially in Western Europe, are now realizing this. That's great to see. There truly is nothing more disgusting than war,…

So what happens when you run out of places to run to? Do you just wave goodbye to your Jewish neighbors? Put a headscarf on your wife and tell her not to go outside without a male relative? Head down to the gulags for your shift? The reason we have nice countries like in Western Europe for you to live in is because they have deterrence against invasion by those who wish to take it from us. You can't just leave and expect to wind up in a similar country with Western values that will be unthreatened by the same threats.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#197

Post by justin66 »

mnm1 wrote: post #69
draugadrotten wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some European countries, like Sweden, now have 25% of residents with a motherland which is not the country they live in. Would an Afhan boy living in Sweden fight for Sweden, or would he just take a flight back home to his real motherland? Would an American living in Germany fight for Germany, or take the next flight home? I think we all know the answer, and therefore large parts of the people living on European soil…

Yup, I totally agree. As an immigrant, I sure as hell wouldn't fight for either of the countries I'm a citizen of or any other for that matter. The whole idea of fighting for your country is stupid, idiotic, and frankly insane, especially if there is an alternative. It seems to me even natives, especially in Western Europe, are now realizing this. That's great to see. There truly is nothing more disgusting than war,…

> There truly is nothing more disgusting than war

The first counterexample that came to mind: to be exterminated without even putting up a fight.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#198

Post by snakeanus »

draugadrotten wrote: post #39
capex wrote: post #25

Having spent 9 years in the military, I can say with some confidence that even soldiers are not willing to fight a war. War is evil. No one looks forward to it (except the generals). But when its thrust upon you, you rise up to the occasion and defend your motherland.

Some European countries, like Sweden, now have 25% of residents with a motherland which is not the country they live in. Would an Afhan boy living in Sweden fight for Sweden, or would he just take a flight back home to his real motherland? Would an American living in Germany fight for Germany, or take the next flight home? I think we all know the answer, and therefore large parts of the people living on European soil…

Does not really explain the Japan case.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#199

Post by ChemicalWarfare »

metafunctor wrote: post #139

In Finland, the army exists for the purpose of defending Finland against attack. Hence the name: Finnish Defence Forces. Finnish males serve a mandatory 6-12 months in the Finnish Defence Forces. It's a citizen's duty here; some people opt for a civil service duty. Thus, when asked a question like this, most Finns will automatically assume defending Finland against a military attack.

>>Hence the name: Finnish Defence Forces.

"Wehrmacht" means something along the lines of the "defense force" too.

Not saying the rest of your reasoning is wrong, just pointing out that calling your army a "defense force" doesn't necessarily mean that it's used for defense only...

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#200

Post by zild3d »

wavefunction wrote: post #154
youngtaff wrote: post #143

Poor choice of colours in that map… Red generally == bad, and in this map lower percentage == red, there for a lower percentage willing to fight is bad?

I don't know that "fight for your country" is "bad" or "good". Defending your country against outside aggression seems "good." Fighting in a war of convenience is "bad". I think an interesting qualifier is if the person answering assumed "fighting for your country" meant defense or offense.

True, still the color choice is poor. Strong red color brings to mind, personally, a high value. I thought it would mean 90-100, except it actually meant 0-9.

If red isn't clearly good or bad, then don't use it. Use light to dark shades of the same color or white to color, etc.

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