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BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

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Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#191

Post by djsumdog »

emodendroket wrote: post #177
emn13 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If hosting is enough to be considered present in the US, then the US cloud providers better get ready for some unpleasantly stiff competition. I'm not sure it's a factor here.

> If hosting is enough to be considered present in the US, then the US cloud providers better get ready for some unpleasantly stiff competition. That has been the case for a really long time, hasn't it?

I'm surprised no one here as mentioned Kim Doctcom, who is still trying to fight his extradition from New Zealand. He's a German, who has never set foot in America, was illegally spied on by NZ (which is now retroactively legal thanks to former PM John Key's GCSB law) and for a charge that isn't a crime in NZ.

Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#192

Post by 794CD01 »

always_good wrote: post #175
ubernostrum wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have noted, the US didn't just make up jurisdiction here or declare that they can prosecute anything anywhere -- the charges include an allegation that he transferred stolen BTC to a US-based company. That creates a crime the US has jurisdiction to prosecute. It really is time for people to stop being gobsmacked at the idea that once you get entangled with an entity in a particular country, anything you do…

You haven't really explained or justified anything. "Them's the rules!!!" What if Thailand wanted to extradite you because you joked about their king on HN? You would just laugh, not make a point about "well, what do you expect when you challenge a nation's royal sovereignty? Have some respect on the internet! Thailand takes this very seriously."

You would laugh because they have no power to enforce their laws globally, and possibly also because the country you live in has free speech laws that make them unlikely to extradite someone for lese-majeste. The US does have that power and the cooperation of foreign governments.

Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#193

Post by mullen »

sgroppino wrote: post #91
Dolores12 wrote: post #51

1) Arresting btc-e admin made all US customers to lose their balances on btc-e exchange. I highly doubt btc-e will come back online. 2) If you run online exchanger and have a single US customer, then you have to register your operation in USA. I find it ridiculously stupid.

Re #2, I wonder if the IRS will start asking US citizens to declare eCurrency accounts in FBAR anytime soon.

Do you have to declare your gold or silver in foreign banks? If not, then I don't see why you would for eCurrency/eAssets. Assets are just assets no matter the form.

Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#194

Post by khuey »

dkersten wrote: post #186
joosters wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TradeHill no longer exists, but I wouldn't want to be their ex-CEO. Their culpability depends on whether or not they knew the money being laundered was dirty, and whether or not their AML and KYC were good enough.

My point was just that TradeHill, being the US entity, is the one in the US jurisdiction and that a criminal doing business with them doesn’t magically fall under US jurisdiction. I’ve no problem with BTC-e or whoever getting arrested, since they were clearly criminals, but I am concerned about US laws becoming a thing that applies to non-US citizens outside of the US (the implication in the comment I replied to bein…

Clearing laundered money through a US bank is more than sufficient for US jurisdiction to apply. You can choose not to like it but this is well established case law.

Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#195

Post by stillhere »

openmosix wrote: post #22

The question for me is: why US? He is a Russian citizen, the company is based in Bulgaria, servers in Russia, legal HQ in Cyprus and all the services operated from Seychelles - arrested in Greece. The MtGox hack affected a Japanese company. I'm not debating the nature of the crimes, etc - I am just wondering, when does it become a US case? I can get the "there were US customers" - but why not Europe? Or Japan? Or Rus…

They even put government agents from other countries on their most wanted websites: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/igor-anatolyevich-sushchin

I'd like to see them try to extradite this guy. LOL!

Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#196

Post by ryanlol »

benwilber0 wrote: post #57
ryanlol wrote: post #2

There's been no mentions of coin seizures anywhere as far as I can tell. Usually you'd see some boasting about that. Perhaps these guys were actually smart about their cold storage?

Page 6 article 20 says they operated their servers in the United States. If that's true then I'm pretty sure they've already been seized. They were probably on aws

That shouldn't give the feds any more than their hotwallet.

Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#197

Post by MichaelGG »

emodendroket wrote: post #180
MichaelGG wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be totally true, but money laundering as a crime itself is just a cover for prosecutors inability to find the real crimes. It's about as morally defensible as asset seizures.

That seems pretty bogus. You're telling me that you think if I operate a front business and help human traffickers launder their money (thereby helping them to cover up their crime), but don't involve myself with human trafficking itself, I've done nothing wrong, and prosecuting me would be morally indefensible?

Yes, the money laundering part should not be prosecutable as long as you weren't involved in any crime. The very concept that not telling the government about everything you do financially is somehow a crime is simply abhorrent.

Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#198

Post by csomar »

hectorr1 wrote: post #172
csomar wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has this "thinking" that the world is just their backyard. It is not really in the law, strictly speaking. But if you have been watching the news, they strongly interfere with countries for their own (or their politicians) benefit. For example, they hit Libya with missiles right when Al-Gaddafi sent troupes to defend from future-ISIS militants. So yes, the US will get involved in stuff that matters to it. > Th…

You're not wrong, but also dismiss some tough moral choices. I'd argue that attacking Libya was against U.S. strategic interests. Since 9/11 Gaddafi had substantially improved relations with the west. He gave up his nuclear program and was basically acting as Europe's bouncer. Since he fell the migrant crisis has exploded. North Korea and Iran learned that despite all promises otherwise, the only way to ensure regime…

This strikes me as your regular U.S. citizen who has been fed with American Media. As someone who is living in the "region" and was affected by the chain of events that happened since the starting of the Tunisian revolution let me tell you that you are quite misinformed about what happened in reality.

Gaddafi was not toppled because he was going to kill civilians. In fact, it is the other way around. Gaddafi has been killing his opposing politicians for decades. This happened with the best knowledge of his US, EU friends at the time and at really a ridiculous and holocaustic level.

The time the US intervened was when he was going to "truly" protect his country or power from real armed extremists.

If you think the US intervene for the sake of "humans" then you are gullible to your media. The US has been actively intervening in the middle east which resulted in countless (hundreds of thousands) of people and children dying directly from US fire.

There are thousands of people dying from hunger every day. The cost to feed them is certainly much less than the cost of wars the US has engaged. But the US will not help these "black" guys despite having the food, infrastructure and money.

The US only intervenes in countries where there are strategic resources; or to help its allies ( israel / south korea ).

Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox

#200

Post by Sleeep »

kadavero wrote: post #105
comex wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one of charges in the indictment, "Operation of an Unlicensed Money Transmitting Business" (18 USC § 1960), they allege that BTC-e satisfied two conditions, either of which alone would have been sufficient to prove the charge. One of the conditions is knowingly transmitting funds derived from a criminal offense, but the other one is just "fail[ing] to comply with the money transmitting business registration requi…

This is ridiculous overreach. It sets a dangerous precedent where any online trader must be mindful of all legislation of all possible jurisdictions on the world. Otherwise, sell porn, have one customer from Saudi Arabia, go for a vacation in Turkey, and here comes your flogging extradition trip. At the same time, US has a "Hague invasion act" authorizing military action against international prosecution of their off…

It's extremely common for businesses dealing with money to only accept customers from only the jurisdictions they have compliance with.
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