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How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

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Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#191

Post by beagle3 »

alkonaut wrote: post #182
thriftwy wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what, Linux distros figured out how to sprint read everything that is needed into RAM and boot under 10 seconds. Windows takes more than a minute on better hardware by seeking the hell out of it.

Is there any Linux dist, even a minimal one, that out-boots windows? TIL. On my SSD, my Win10 cold boots faster than my Dell U2410 screen displays anything if powered at the same time (couple of secs)

Yes. For years now (at least since 14.04), on HDD, Ubuntu boots to login screen (and once password is given, gets faster to usable desktop) than Win7, Win8.1 and Win10 on every hardware I've run both. And Ubuntu isn't the fastest booting desktop out there.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#192

Post by beagle3 »

geofft wrote: post #135
ekianjo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats if you dont mind the hugely privacy invasive win10 environment to begin with.

Good point. Let me switch to Ubuntu, which definitely doesn't have any privacy invasions in its desktop environment....

They don't, since a long time ago. And for the short time they did, they documented exactly what was sent, to who, and how to turn it off (and you were able to verify that by looking at the source, recompiling yourself, etc.)

Please explain how to do any of those things on Windows - either the new 10, or the retrofitted-telemetry 7 which one has to retrofit with telemetry if they want security updates.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#193

Post by ekianjo »

geofft wrote: post #135
ekianjo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats if you dont mind the hugely privacy invasive win10 environment to begin with.

Good point. Let me switch to Ubuntu, which definitely doesn't have any privacy invasions in its desktop environment....

Oh, you mean the Amazon searches that were disabled with one click? Win10 goes WAY beyond that. And Linux != Ubuntu as far as I know. Nice strawman.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#194

Post by thriftwy »

tw04 wrote: post #161
thriftwy wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 's pretty well known that as part of the new iterative release cycle they're slowly moving things Linux DEs were blasted for things like that, but now they're suddenly OK for a multi-billion-dollar company's flagship product? > you're running off a spinning drive I also happen to walk on the ground and climb up the stairs, being aware of alternatives. That's what I've got in a shop and it has MS Windows logo glued…

>Linux DEs were blasted for things like that, but now they're suddenly OK for a multi-billion-dollar company's flagship product? Yes actually. It's what users asked for, and I rather appreciate it. Linux DEs were BLASTED for breaking things. MS isn't breaking anything as they make the slow transition to the new panels. If you want to use the old control panel, everything is right there where it always was. If you wan…

> you bought a dirt cheap laptop

As I've already said, you're a wrongfullt accusing right here. I've bought a mid-range laptop.

> The laptop will be slow regardless of OS with a spinning drive

As I've already said, you're wrong. Linux will still boot in 10 seconds and won't freeze for minutes during work.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#195

Post by thriftwy »

tw04 wrote: post #160
thriftwy wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what, Linux distros figured out how to sprint read everything that is needed into RAM and boot under 10 seconds. Windows takes more than a minute on better hardware by seeking the hell out of it.

That's just not even remotely based in reality. Linux is SIGNIFICANTLY slower to boot on HDD than SSD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgmph_bL8V4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Rsr4E6b68 But I would once again question why you care how long it takes to cold boot a laptop. I think my laptop gets cold booted MAYBE once a month.

For some reason, my Windows 10 install reboots itself regularly. Or sometimes it freezes so the only solution is hard reset. That I'm not going to blame solely on Windows, but still, that's what I'm observing.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#196

Post by dspillett »

gmarx wrote: post #156
tw04 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you're missing the point. MS isn't competing against Postgres or MySQL, they're competing against Oracle, DB2, and Hana. All of which have a variant that runs on Linux. They need to be just as flexible as their real competition if they want to continue to expand market share.

meta-point. You could have edited out your first sentence

Or just reworded it: "I don't think you are not seeing MS's real objective here" is probably what he meant, in the tone he thought it, he just wrote it in a more direct manner that made it seem more aggressively negative.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#197

Post by dspillett »

mmargerum wrote: post #172
snuxoll wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I love PostgreSQL, which is a lot, MS SQL still has some exceptional functionality around business intelligence and handles large reporting warehouses with ease. We just purchased three UCS blades for a new SQL Server deployment to consolidate our existing databases and handle the data warehousing project we are starting, here I am wasting days writing ansible modules and roles to set everything up when I…

I have been using sql server since 6.0, the standard edition is a steal for the price. Been running critical systems on it for two decades and it's been an absolute rock since the version 7 rewrite.

> I have been using sql server since 6.0, the standard edition is a steal for the price.

Especially since 2016sp1 when they unlocked a lot of previously enterprise edition only features in standard edition. The scalability is still locked down a bit but those limits have crept up over time also: there is a lot that you can do before 128Gb RAM & 24 cores spread between up to 4 CPUs becomes limiting (core engine only limits there, OLAP services, reporting services, and the mem-optimised engine parts have extra limits on SE compared to EE).

Also a chunk of enterprise licensing is in support which if you are truly at that scale might be worth paying for. But if your company/product isn't there yet that is a cost worry to put off to the future, and as developer edition (which feature-wise is enterprise edition, you just can't use it in production) is essentially free you can test in advance to see when/if that expenditure is going to be worthwhile.

Of course it doesn't beat Free on price, so if postgres has the features & support you need, which for many it has, then it is far from an open/shut case. But compared to the other commercial products in the same market...

> it's been an absolute rock

Agreed. I can't think of another product that I've used nearly as much which has caused us so little hassle over the time. It certainly hands MS's other products their arses in that respect.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#198

Post by vidarh »

alkonaut wrote: post #101
vidarh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my son a new laptop earlier this year. It is something like ten times faster than his old Linux laptop (my old hand-me-downs), yet it boots slow and is sluggish with Windows where his old Linux setup was fast. I haven't had it freeze, but I've spent far more time solving problems with his new laptop in the last few months than in the last few years of having him use Linux. If it wasn't for some of the games…

If a new laptop is slow something must be wrong. Such as it having a mechanical disk. It might not seem like a big problem but it's almost a complete no go with win 10. If there are performance issues/freezing on a machine with 8GB and SSD then something is wrong and you should contact the manufacturer, chances are a bios or driver update will fix it

Maybe we have different expectations of speed - I've never seen a Windows machine since about Windows 95 was current that didn't feel sluggish.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#199

Post by vidarh »

alkonaut wrote: post #143
thriftwy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such as it having a mechanical disk. it's almost a complete no go with win 10 Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs? You come to store and that's what you get out of it. Also, Linux doesn't mind running from HDD. Not ten years ago, not now. Lesson to MS: Get your act together or get out of this business. Come back from make-believe world. MS is running on make-believe for the last 10 years. Windows 8, t…

> Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs? Excellent question. These machines should do better with Win7 but Microsoft doesn't want to sell it. Microsoft sells windows 10 and Microsoft sells laptops with Windows 10 on an SSD. I doubt (but do correct me if I'm wrong) Microsoft sells any computers with Windows 10 on a mechanical drive. Various manufacturers sell underpowered computers with Win10 on it, but th…

So in other words we need to buy substantially more expensive computers to get a usable experience with Windows vs. Linux. On top of the Windows license.

You'll note that with respect to my sons laptop, Linux ran just fine on his much older, slower laptop.

Says it all, really.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#200

Post by alkonaut »

thriftwy wrote: post #155
alkonaut wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs? Excellent question. These machines should do better with Win7 but Microsoft doesn't want to sell it. Microsoft sells windows 10 and Microsoft sells laptops with Windows 10 on an SSD. I doubt (but do correct me if I'm wrong) Microsoft sells any computers with Windows 10 on a mechanical drive. Various manufacturers sell underpowered computers with Win10 on it, but th…

> they can't hit the lowest price segments That's a lie right here because the laptop in question not low end, definitely middle one. > Various manufacturers sell underpowered computers with Win10 That was always part of Microsoft deal. You get your computer from a manufacturer other than MS and they still have to deliver experience, and they've failed that one.

A recent middle range laptop didn't have an SSD? Obviously it might be a config option so a buyer might opt for a better gpu instead at the same price for example, but it still makes me a bit upset it's even possible to get a hdd if the laptop isn't low budget.
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