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I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

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Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#191

Post by rainingmonkey »

utbabya wrote: post #181

FYI, there's an interesting commentator machine operating in China for public manipulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party I'm not ruling out genuine believer of their opinions but there's also this possibility. They're getting pretty sophisticated and sometimes instead of supporting the government, their goal would be disinformation, induce hatred (i.e. troll) to divide and conquer. If you're interested…

I read a paper recently examining output of the 50c party based on leaked emails (I can't find a link now), which showed that rather than spreading hatred and jumping to defend the Chinese government, the 50c party actually avoid any remotely controversial topic and instead just post "Go China!" "Woo, look at $cool_thing China's done!" "Look how strong/advanced/kind/wise China is!"

Of course whenever anyone writes anything pro-China on the internet, people are going to assume it's the 50c party, just like I assume anything pro-Microsoft here comes from a paid shill or a bot ;)

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#192

Post by LiweiZ »

Until those so-called activists don't have to looking for funding from sides with their own agendas, or more clearly, having stable and large cashflow, they are fighting for their own fames and interests instead of the people living on that land.

For outsiders, they are icons/symbols. For most of insiders, they are someone unrelated to their life. In events like this, both sides can consume the news and get what they want without anything really meaningful happens.

This is a kind of hopeless in the real world.

Icons get selected and pushed to their directions and have no means to actually do anything useful.

As an average Joe, the best thing to do is reducing this kind of consumption, taking care of yourself and, hopefully, not getting involved in/caught. This can somewhat explain, from one dimension, why there is no truly strong and cohesive Chinese community in the western world.

More money only spoils unrestricted kids even more. They don't settle down for the progress they gain, just want even more. That's a DNA in the core of the whole system and affects people within.

There is nothing to look for, just strong dark currents.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#193

Post by sctb »

TokenDiversity wrote: post #3

I'm surprised China gets away with so much! They recently banned kids from being named Mohammad. And had Imams dance. I wish our war-mongering republicans would switch their attention to countries that really violate human rights. EDIT: Of course they do much worse, I was pointing to the fact that not a peep was heard on Fox or CNN.

Taking threads like this even deeper into nationalistic-political-religious flamewar territory does no good. Please don't post like this on Hacker News, it's not the kind of discussion we're here for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#194

Post by sctb »

qwertyegg wrote: post #190
larrysalibra wrote: post #2

If aren't sure who Liu Xiaobo is or want to learn more, this essay by China expert Perry Link is excellent: http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/07/13/the-passion-of-liu-x...

What is not mentioned in Perry's writing is that Liu's claim that China needs to be colonized for 300 years ( https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/10/li... ) has put him as a shameful character in Chinese history. He might have thousands of supporters in China, of course, it's a country with 1.3b people. It doesn't matter, most people see him as a pitiful puppet of western government, and he is, by…

Personal insults like this don't belong on HN. If you have a point to make, it needs to be made civilly and substantively.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#195

Post by colordrops »

ideal0227 wrote: post #66
colordrops wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can read Chinese as well and I don't see anything opinionated in that quote. There is nothing that says anything positive or negative about Hong Kong. It just says that he suspects that China would have to be colonized for 300 years to reach the same state as Hong Kong, due to its large size. He does not say whether it would be a good or bad thing. I don't even notice an undertone.

> I can read Chinese as well I am a native Chinese, which also implies I understand more of the language context. Also it implies I probably can share more of the sentiment as other Chinese people do. So, yes, there is a difference between how people view the exact same content. And I was trying to clarify that. > China would have to be colonized for 300 years to reach the same state as Hong Kong Why China needs to r…

Neither I nor the quote said that China has to reach the same state as Hong Kong. Nor did I or the quote say that Hong Kong's state was better than China's.

Now maybe it is Liu Xiaobo's belief that China should be like Hong Kong, but that is not necessarily implied by the quote.

Do you also believe that "brain in a jar" thought experiments imply that someone wants to cut your brain out and put it in a jar?

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#196

Post by [deleted] »

ideal0227 wrote: post #66
colordrops wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can read Chinese as well and I don't see anything opinionated in that quote. There is nothing that says anything positive or negative about Hong Kong. It just says that he suspects that China would have to be colonized for 300 years to reach the same state as Hong Kong, due to its large size. He does not say whether it would be a good or bad thing. I don't even notice an undertone.

> I can read Chinese as well I am a native Chinese, which also implies I understand more of the language context. Also it implies I probably can share more of the sentiment as other Chinese people do. So, yes, there is a difference between how people view the exact same content. And I was trying to clarify that. > China would have to be colonized for 300 years to reach the same state as Hong Kong Why China needs to r…

[deleted]

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#197

Post by colordrops »

pavlov wrote: post #60
colordrops wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most posts on HN are statements or opinion not backed up by facts. Occasionally an academic type will provide footnotes to their post but it's not the norm. Typically if someone's post is not received well, people respond by asking for references or a challenge to back up their statement. You take a comment that is not really qualitatively different from any other post on HN and give it special status because it's po…

The original comment contributed nothing of substance: "China's political environment is indeed bad, but most of the Western media coverage distorted the facts" You're the one asking others to give this empty argument special status because it was posted by someone who claims to be Chinese.

How is that insubstantial? Many do not realize that the west is also a purveyor of lots of propaganda and perhaps they should challenge what they hear from the western media about controversial China topics. That is a very valid point.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#198

Post by barkxyz »

19eightyfour wrote: post #180
wangii wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your assumption that anyone/organization/party might have superior knowledge to lay out a perfect plan (70 years!), is not true. without this assumption, your argument becomes invalid.

not assuming anything. just looking at the results. from poverty to riches in 70 years, civil harmony and > 1bn people, clearly the proof the party doesn't know what they're doing. the truth is the PRC is ruled by technocratic geniuses. Even their critics admit as much. most of them are engineers. you SV Cali republic folks ought to be eyeing this as a model of development + progress can be done right at scale. but i…

The results? China has not yet achieved the wealth of liberal democracies in the West and taken decades or centuries longer to get there. Moreover, Taiwan, South Korea and (earlier) Japan have enjoyed similar economic booms whilst (or subsequently) enjoying democracy.

Honest question: how do these data points fit into your theory?

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#199

Post by paulddraper »

epmaybe wrote: post #178
paulddraper wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources?

I found this link: https://www.earthrights.org/campaigns/norway-complicit-human... but haven't read it fully.

Looks like $5b of their pension fund investments include multinational oil and gas companies in Burma.

The article says Norway is complicit in these companies' actions which are complicit in "forced labor, killings, and land confiscation"

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#200

Post by pavanred »

jdietrich wrote: post #155
pavanred wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't just simply discount the effect of the Nobel prize and world media coverage of Liu Xiaobo. I am reading the book Perfect Hostage by Justin Wintle, it's about the life of Aung San Suu Kyi. And, yes there were a lot of Burmese people and their leader who fought fearlessly for democracy, but I think in addition to that there is a real sizable effect of Suu Kyi winning the Nobel peace prize and world media cover…

Suu Kyi gained her freedom, won an election, then ignored a genocide. Democracy is not magic. A failing state is a failing state, regardless of the system of government. Great rebels rarely make for great politicians. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/rohingya-muslim... https://theintercept.com/2017/04/13/burmese-nobel-prize-winn...

Exactly my point.

Myanmar got their freedom. Now, there is another problem and the current establishment isn't doing enough. And, what you shared is, again, the world media covering these lapses. Suu Kyi did a lot right in the fight for freedom, but doesn't make her infallible. Perhaps some one else from within Myanmar will rise up and champion the cause. And, the world media and external entities do their part to help in terms of coverage, spreading awareness, diplomatic pressure, sanctions etc. We cannot just brush off the efforts of the latter saying they are doing it just to please themselves.

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