America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#191

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 16, 2017, 10:59 PM UTC

chc wrote: post #114

protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

> A pack of cigarettes is one of the most luxurious pleasures available if all you have is $5. There's nothing luxurious about smelling bad and getting a wicked cough. Unless you're already addicted, nearly anything under $5 is more luxurious than a cigarette. I just ate an orange that cost 50¢ and it was more luxurious than any cigarette I've ever smoked.

[deleted]

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#192

Post by r00fus » Fri, Jun 16, 2017, 11:38 PM UTC

fjdlwlv wrote: post #167

davidf18 wrote: post #53

As of roughly 5 or more years ago, half of tobacco consumed in the US is by people who are mentally ill and/or substance abusers. For example, people with Schizophrenia are heavy smokers and 90% smoke. Those with clinical depression 60%. They are self-medicating for their underlying illness. We need to ensure that they are getting proper treatment. Income Disparities in Absolute Cardiovascular Risk and Cardiovascular…

High tobacco taxes killed Eric Garner. Raising prices in poor countries with unaccountable Governments smells a lot like serfdom. We should give to the world's poorest before we pick their pockets.

> High tobacco taxes killed Eric Garner.

No, thuggish police killed Eric Garner. He was just doing basic arbitrage on tobacco tax differentials.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#193

Post by mercer » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 10:47 AM UTC

tomatsu wrote: post #131

ryan606 wrote: post #56

I was able to quit my 1/2 pack a day addiction four years ago after 15+ years, but it was challenging. Smoking was expensive (four years ago: 4 packs a week = $40), but quitting smoking was even more expensive. In addition to the expense of Chantix, I also started surfing Amazon for things to reward myself instead of going outside for a smoke break. So it was probably $100 - $200 a week. Now nicotine-free for 4+ year…

I quit cold turkey and ate 2 large bags of sunflower seeds in the first 3 weeks. Quitting was cheap. Quitting isn't that hard. It's just super annoying. Things like exercising regularly and eating properly take more discipline and willpower, for example.

> Things like exercising regularly and eating properly take more discipline and willpower, for example.

From what I've read quitting smoking is one of the most difficult things to pull off in general (even compared to 'hard drugs'). Do you have any references in support of your view?

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#194

Post by coldtea » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 10:50 AM UTC

metaphorm wrote: post #102

coldtea wrote: post #48

The decline of the middle class and the huge explosion of the riches of the rich class will ensure that rich and poor in 50 and 100 years look and live like different species... Slum dwellers and "city trash" on one hand, and 150 year old clean shaven organic vegan genetically modified uberlords on the other. Warlocks vs Elois all over again...

*Morlocks [0] 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlock

Yeah, that!

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#195

Post by omginternets » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 2:10 PM UTC

>“People down here smoke because of the stress in their life,” Seals said. “They smoke because of money problems, family problems. It’s the one thing they have control over. The one thing that makes them feel better. And you want them to give that up? It’s the toughest thing in the world.”

I'm sorry but this is facile. "Stress" and "problems" cause people to smoke only in the broadest sense of the word "cause". Something else is at work, here, and my hunch is that it's cultural. I've found that in much of blue-collar America, smoking is something of a status symbol.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#196

Post by pasbesoin » Sun, Jun 18, 2017, 10:59 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #80

protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

Not to mention self-medicating. Cigarettes are expensive but they're cheaper than dealing with mental health issues for the uninsured.

Nicotine is a drug. And some small studies have hinted at the benefits it confers (along with the risks, both of itself and in the delivery medium, burned (and processed, and adulterated) tobacco).

Their are also significant social and signaling roles.

Until we can have an honest conversation about this, and actually embrace and continuing objective science on it, we aren't going to find the honest and effective solution -- whatever that may be.