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Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

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Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#191

Post by michaelbuckbee »

atmosx wrote: post #119
skinnymuch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the WP article you cited, titled, "The secret American origins of Telegram, the encrypted messaging app favored by the Islamic State". If Telegram isn't that secure, then why are extremists like IS using it over Signal or WhatsApp? I know Telegram has better features for big groups and much better multi-platform support, so is that the reason? I'm legitimately asking without any snark.

You highly overestimate the people who are in position of power. I am talking about politicians, head of terrorist groups, etc. While saying that top politicians are complete idiots is probably wrong - then again maybe not, I am not sure anymore - the fact that H. Clinton, run the most expensive campaign in history, with backing from all major tech corps AND her staff didn't bother to use encryption at any scale, let…

I've always heard that while House of Cards might be more "serious" that Veep is actually much closer to real life. Veep has politicians making stupid mistakes on Twitter. Life and death decisions decided on a whims and just absurd amounts of pettiness.

Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#192

Post by tanderson92 »

daxorid wrote: post #103
RodericDay wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh, people like tptacek and his buddies have a clear agenda and attitude of their own. I'm definitely not sated by their pronouncements alone.

While I absolutely agree with you about the "tptacek & friends" agenda, that really has no bearing whatsoever on the actual problems they've raised with MTProto, their weird KDF, and IGE in general. Whenever one can consider a person's arguments in isolation from your opinion of said person, it's wise to do so. This is one of those opportunities.

Can you elaborate on what that agenda is?

Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#193

Post by prawn »

Surely it's not just an issue of location but scale? Unless there is a huge team reviewing code, an individual or small team could be paid-off by an agency to provide a backdoor? For the right combination of large scale app by small team, there'd have to be a price at which many individuals capitulate? If the backdoor is somehow revealed, "doesn't matter, got my money".

I used to wonder whether some success of social media companies couldn't be explained by secret payments for backdoor access. You could be operating out of Europe or Africa and still get offered money, and other pressure carefully applied.

You might think you'd hold true to your plan of privacy-for-all, but if they offer $x00m or more?

Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#194

Post by moosingin3space »

vkazanov wrote: post #158
moosingin3space wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moxie Marlinspike's reputation is dependent on his ability to deliver a secure product. Signal/Signal Protocol development is funded by donations and grants from groups like the Freedom of the Press Foundation, EFF, etc, and those groups desire a secure messaging product. Moxie has staked his reputation on WhatsApp's implementation of the Signal Protocol multiple times on the OWS blog, which he would not do if he dis…

And you call that a proof? :-)

I did say "there's no hard proof". This was purely an analysis of incentives.

Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#195

Post by 19eightyfour »

But wouldn't it be in the interests of mass surveillance to herd people toward a chat option that isn't secure, or that the surveillants have a backdoor to? You get two benefits: 1) chat people think is secret you can read, 2) people self-identify as selectors / targets by choosing to try to hide their communications, which you can actually read

And if such PR herding worked, wouldn't the surveillants be prepared to pay for such efforts to make their job easier?

So, what seems readily apparent is: Telegram takes state money, to offer an insecure option, while dissimulating to the world that it's: a) secure and b) turning down state money all the time.

I know why this perspective isn't discussed in MSM. But I don't get why it's not discussed more here. It seems obvious to me. And personally IMHO, I think that's a good thing. Catch more criminals / terrorists.

Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#196

Post by rspeer »

snakeanus wrote: post #170
rspeer wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is false. A large number of people in the security community have spoken out against that article, which had the effect of convincing people in dangerous situations to switch to less secure communication methods. "Security researchers call for Guardian to retract false WhatsApp backdoor story" [1] The Guardian claims they have offered to let Zeynep Tufekci write a rebuttal; according to Tufekci, they hav…

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the article, claiming that it is FUD will not change the fact that WhatsApp can re-send messages encrypted with different keys at will (which makes it ABSOLUTELY USELESS for people who actually care about their privacy). The argument against the article seems to be around "we can trust whatsapp not to abuse their ability", which blows my mind. You should not have to trust anyone…

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Zeynep Tufekci knows more people who need crypto to survive than the average HN user, and understands their trust model better.

Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#197

Post by dingo_bat »

otalp wrote: post #5

>"It would be naive to think you can run an independent/secure cryptoapp based in the US." This seems to be a shot at WhatsApp and Signal, implying that they have loopholes that allow the FBI to snoop in. I'm not sure how true that is. This might be an attempt to deflect from the fact that Telegram uses a home-baked encryption protocol which might be insecure, while WhatsApp uses the OWS protocol.

How do we know what WhatsApp uses? And do they use it in a secure way?

Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#198

Post by aussieguy123 »

BoumTAC wrote: post #13
ghughes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. The CEO of Telegram likes to spread conspiracy theories that are good for business. In a recent tweet he claimed that Signal is "funded by the US government", [1] citing a ridiculous hit piece on OWS and Moxie. [2] [1] https://twitter.com/durov/status/872891017418113024 [2] https://surveillancevalley.com/blog/government-backed-privac...

Even wikipedia say it's founded by the governement ... As of October 2016, the project has received an unknown amount of donations from individual sponsors via the Freedom of the Press Foundation.[100] Open Whisper Systems has received grants from the Knight Foundation,[101] the Shuttleworth Foundation,[102] and the Open Technology Fund,[103] a U.S. government funded program that has also supported other privacy proj…

For all we know, Signal itself could be one big CIA operation. It wouldn't be beyond their capabilities. But at least the protocol and encryption are open source.

Re: Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to weaken encryption

#199

Post by was_boring »

fidget wrote: post #181
sandov wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it's closed source, we have to assume that it's unsecure.

Man, I've got some horrible news about your CPU.

Sad, but true https://arstechnica.com/security/2013/12/we-cannot-trust-int...
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