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Uber CEO to take leave

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Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#191

Post by burkaman »

malandrew wrote: post #181
burkaman wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be missing some shady history, but off the top of my head how about Square? Edit: Dropbox, Craigslist, GitHub, PayPal, Instagram, Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter Anyone feel free to jump in if I'm ignoring any exploitation or shadiness. Bad examples: Spotify and Snapchat.

Craigslist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist_Inc._v._3Taps_Inc . Github: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub#Departure_of_Tom_Presto... Paypal: https://www.google.com/search?q=paypal+scandal&rlz=1C5CHFA_e... Twitter: https://www.google.com/search?q=twitter+harassment+problem&r... Square: http://www.businessinsider.com/wsj-square-coo-resigned-after... So your list has dwindled to just Dropbox and Instagram.

Craigslist: That lawsuit came well over a decade after it launched, so that's not an example of something startups are forced to do to succeed.

Github: The point I'm arguing against is the idea that startups have to use exploitative and legally questionably business practices to succeed. This Github thing sucks, but it doesn't really have anything to do with business practices, and obviously nobody is arguing that startup leaders have to to be sexist to succeed.

PayPal: That scandal looks like it's related to PayPal Credit, which they acquired a decade after PayPal was founded. Not an example of something startups have to do to succeed.

Twitter: This is somewhat debatable, but it's a reasonable point. Maybe Twitter wouldn't have succeeded if it tried to stamp out harassment early on.

Square: Similar to Github. This sucks, but it's not really relevant to the point I'm trying to make. It is possible and relatively common for a startup to find massive success without relying on exploitation and potentially illegal business practices.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#192

Post by cat199 »

PatrickAuld wrote: post #184
pavlov wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... the 'cultural' interview where there gave me an example of them knowingly breaking the law because "they knew they were right" and then asked if I had a similar work experience" Incredible. Isn't this how mafia organizations hire? I don't know if this interview method would expose Uber to liability under organized crime laws, but maybe it should.

Having sat through it (but not having experience in law) I don't believe it would. I'm sure the interviewer and the rest of Uber would say they didn't break the law; only that they enabled and took maybe encouraged others to.

Not a lawyer, but.. If they admitted this much I'm pretty sure that would count under RICO. After all, mafia bosses never actually kill anyone or sell drugs.. they only 'enable' and 'encourage' others to..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corru...

"The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, commonly referred to as the RICO Act or simply RICO, is a United States federal law that provides for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. The RICO Act focuses specifically on racketeering, and it allows the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the crimes which they ordered others to do or assisted them in doing, closing a perceived loophole that allowed a person who instructed someone else to, for example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because he did not actually commit the crime personally.[1]"

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#193

Post by thesmallestcat »

PatrickAuld wrote: post #182
kingnothing wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so vague it almost sounds like trolling. What did they specifically ask in regards to breaking the law?

All they asked me for was a similar experience, not if I had broken the law. The example and question were based on their Core Value of 'Persistent Confrontation' which basically was spun to mean 'don't stop if you know you're right' but I took actually meant 'don't reevaluate your position in the face of new information'. I'm being somewhat vague on purpose; some level of NDA got signed and my username doesn't exact…

A core value is "Persistent Confrontation"? Insane.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#194

Post by elvinyung »

burkaman wrote: post #97
m12r wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you? Microsoft Antitrust nightmare that probably set them back 5 years. Google for invading our privacy, they are still fighting big important battles in Europe. Facebook for similar privacy invasion, the whole beacon debacle. There are a lot of things that they probably did wrong, but not to the extend that the press is picturing it. Agreed 100% w/ dvt.

I could be missing some shady history, but off the top of my head how about Square? Edit: Dropbox, Craigslist, GitHub, PayPal, Instagram, Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter Anyone feel free to jump in if I'm ignoring any exploitation or shadiness. Bad examples: Spotify and Snapchat.

I would like to add that Square internally has a very oft-repeated (and somewhat tongue-in-cheek) mantra of "break the rules, not the law", and IMO a pretty strong moral compass in general.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#195

Post by censoredforlife »

dvt wrote: post #21

I really don't buy the Travis Kalanik hate. Yeah, Uber started out as your typical SV unicorn (bro warts and all). Yeah, Uber's entire business model can be described as "grey-area" at best and its business practices as sometimes exploitative. But this is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup in its first decade. This is exactly how FB started out. And this follows every rule in the startu…

I am with you. I see nothing wrong with this email either. People fuck!

Looks like it offended a bunch of regressive men and women.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#196

Post by rosser »

Balgair wrote: post #188
rosser wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't think The Prince was intended to be taken normatively .

By no means was I suggesting to take 'The Prince' as a manual, that would be dumb and really evil. The methods outlined in it can be seen in TK's actions. Well, that or (invoking Hanlon's Razor) they are just plain dumb.

I think Ayn Rand's oeuvre does a better job of explaining Kalanick's gestalt than Machiavelli's, but I might very well just be biased as regards one of those authors, and their "philosophy"...

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#197

Post by rogerdonaldson »

barleyworth wrote: post #78
dvt wrote: post #21

I really don't buy the Travis Kalanik hate. Yeah, Uber started out as your typical SV unicorn (bro warts and all). Yeah, Uber's entire business model can be described as "grey-area" at best and its business practices as sometimes exploitative. But this is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup in its first decade. This is exactly how FB started out. And this follows every rule in the startu…

> There was literally nothing wrong with the email There were at least two things wrong with the email, from my perspective as a guy who's been around plenty of benign bro culture. 1. Explicitly mentioning "sex" as opposed to "relationship" or "dating", and talking about it so casually, sets a very aggressive tone. 20-something guys with lots of hormones will definitely hear that tone and push hard for sex during the…

barleyworth, I believe the email was written in a humorous way. If it was a serious email, with that sex point in it, then I agree it would have been weird, and wrong.

But the whole email right from the first word to the last was written in a jovial manner with plenty of jokes in it. So I dont feel it was that bad.

I can understand that Travis was trying to create a party atmosphere after all of them worked really hard to get to where they are. Imagine, if you and your colleagues worked day and night for years and then finally you reached a milestone -- you might want to celebrate and have some fun! I think Travis was just trying to setup the jovial atmosphere so that people do not just have a standard corporate event.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#198

Post by [deleted] »

malandrew wrote: post #91
minimaxir wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said comments typically get downvoted/flagged already.

I'm expecting the comment to get flagged and detached so I figured it was a good time to suggest a general rule that Godwin's Law breakers will not be tolerated.

[deleted]
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