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Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

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Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#191

Post by ericd »

throwanem wrote: post #186
ericd wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing, thanks for responding civilly. The thing with what you seem to be saying (that the science camp is trying to drive religion out of schools despite their supposed adherence to "live and let live") is that public schools are a state institution, and separation of church and state is also incredibly important. You're perfectly free to set up religious schools (which exist), and also to home school your child…

I don't really think that either of us is going to convince the other on any subject of import; we just don't share enough priors - for example, I doubt you are very susceptible to conviction on the point of modern progressivism as an inherently corrupt Christian heresy, and while I did once share the same faith you expound here, it would take a book to explain how and why I ceased to do so. That book actually has be…

I didn't mention Federal money, I'm keenly aware that it's primarily funded at the local level, mostly via property taxes. I'm not sure how the funding source is relevant, though, it's still public funding one way or the other. Separation of church and state is a core American value, not only at the Federal level.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#192

Post by rthomas6 »

skosch wrote: post #97
watwut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it oftentimes easier to say no without saying reason. The issue for me was that when I state reason, people wanted to negotiate, attempted to "advise" me on how organize my time better and so on and so forth. Overtime (at least against many people) I found it much less draining to simply insist on politely stated no without further explanation.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

How much do you ask of people that people brushing you off is a common occurance?

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#193

Post by bluetwo »

skosch wrote: post #97
watwut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it oftentimes easier to say no without saying reason. The issue for me was that when I state reason, people wanted to negotiate, attempted to "advise" me on how organize my time better and so on and so forth. Overtime (at least against many people) I found it much less draining to simply insist on politely stated no without further explanation.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

Here is my strategy: Say "No" without a reason, but give at some reasonable alternatives. I will not lie.

"No, I can't do that for you at 5pm on a Friday. I can have it for you by noon on Monday, you can ask X to do the work, or you can invent a time machine and go back 24-hours and give the work to me yesterday."

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#194

Post by cafard »

Having read through this, it strikes me as a version of the change that takes place in Pierre Bezhukov in War and Peace after his captivity. One saves time by not having to read a thousand pages to get to it; one loses something also, given that those thousand pages are of War and Peace.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#195

Post by nkg »

Bakary wrote: post #184
manmal wrote: post #91

For anybody learning to say "no" currently - learn to say "no" gently and kindly. I'm quite bad at this myself. I let people impose stuff on me, and once I have had enough, I have a very rude way of telling people off. One reason for this rudeness is a fear that I will lose something when declining (e.g. a relationship or money), so I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - I don't want to help, but I feel I sho…

One method I found works disturbingly well is to have a busy life or cultivate the appearance of a busy life. It's counter-intuitive for some and obvious for others, but people will value you more if you are less available whereas they will treat your time with increasing contempt if you can be reached and interrupted easily. With this reputation in place, people are much less likely to try to trick you into doing wh…

I would add also that people will be more grateful when you offer your help, and that will help you feel more appreciated.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#197

Post by toothbrush »

astockwell wrote: post #93
nrjames wrote: post #15

It's ok to be accommodating as long as you have learned to be introspective. We all have demands of our own time and money. Introspective accommodating people are able to help others in a generous way while protecting the time and resources they need to help themselves. It's a difficult balance to achieve. Through experience, I've come to believe that this holds true in long-term personal relationships, too. While ma…

Indeed, as Mark Manson puts it[1]: "For a relationship to be healthy, both parties need to be able to both give and receive rejection". Eye-opening for me, and explained many of the unhealthy relationships in my life (including employee-employer dynamics). [1] https://markmanson.net/books/subtle-art (quasi-NSFW)

Very strange! I recently read a similarly-titled book by a certain Sarah Knight! I think my friend meant to recommend Manson's book, and i ended up ordering and reading Knight's months ago, and only figured out now that there might have been a miscommunication. Haha, thanks HN.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#198

Post by gukov »

qntty wrote: post #69
unfamiliar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His entire lecture series, which is available on his youtube channel, is absolutely fantastic and worth every minute. It is probably one of the most engaging and enlightening bodies of work I have experienced in any format.

Can you point me to the videos that you found enlightening?

His two podcasts with Joe Rogan are the best. Joe himself said as much.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#199

Post by Bakary »

BrailleHunting wrote: post #189
Bakary wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One method I found works disturbingly well is to have a busy life or cultivate the appearance of a busy life. It's counter-intuitive for some and obvious for others, but people will value you more if you are less available whereas they will treat your time with increasing contempt if you can be reached and interrupted easily. With this reputation in place, people are much less likely to try to trick you into doing wh…

It's an incomplete charade. Feel free to wear noise-canceling headphones, sunglasses and a hat and close the door, the needy jerks will still suckle attention for their time-sucking, futility from all directions... the Mormons, Amway distributors, recruiters, parties, the help me move a couch, help me do this and that, on and on. It's better to be a "grayman:" blend-in by being as boring, generic and forgetable as po…

It's possible you may not have cultivated the right impression. It took me a while to figure out the psychological aspect of it and achieve the "I'm busy and I have things going on" look, but once I hit the sweet spot, the before and after difference was astounding. When I relocated to another country and a different professional and social circle, it was like I was perceived to be a completely different person, even though my actual behavior and personality had only been slightly adjusted.

I essentially molded my behavior on that of people who I myself perceived to be busy and "important". In some cases, I wasn't even consciously aware that I treated some people with more respect and others with less (those who showed the same accommodating behavior I did, or worse) until I critically examined my relationship with them. It worked like a charm.

The most encouraging development was that after while I actually became a person with "things going on". Of course, this was only the natural progression of increased confidence, focus and free time.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#200

Post by Aeolun »

skosch wrote: post #97
watwut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it oftentimes easier to say no without saying reason. The issue for me was that when I state reason, people wanted to negotiate, attempted to "advise" me on how organize my time better and so on and so forth. Overtime (at least against many people) I found it much less draining to simply insist on politely stated no without further explanation.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

If the true reason is laziness, isn't that still a perfectly valid reason? I just don't particularly feel like moving your damn couch right now, I'd rather watch Netflix.

When I'm imposing on your time it's only normal that you get a chance to say 'no', whatever the reason for it.

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