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Basecamp Employee Handbook

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Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#191

Post by mahyarm »

epsilongreedy wrote: post #127

Is it just me or are their "real" benefits pretty poor? Health Care: no vision, I assume no dental. 25% copay on the PPO is on the higher end too, no? 401K: Not matching up to max. Certainly not all companies do, but still. I guess it's rare for startups. Equity pool: (1) What happens on year 6? You don't vest any more equity? (2) This feels to me like it would not reward tenured employees as much. If you joined the…

What is the difference between matching and just giving you more salary, which you could put into your 401k? Does it enable you to put even more into your 401k tax free?

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#192

Post by cpach »

fastbeef wrote: post #185
tptacek wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is paid for by businesses as well, in that every person who takes that leave potentially creates another headcount requirement to fill the gap. Something between the European standard expectation of a year's leave and the American top-end norm of 12/6 primary/secondary is probably the right answer here. But this is all a tangent. It is totally unreasonable to criticize Basecamp for policies that are on the high si…

Just to be clear, this isn't some experimental new thing that the Nordic countries are trying, this has been in place for well over 40 years - It. Works. Does it create a suboptimal situation at the workplace. Sure, sometimes. However, since the management probably have taken long parental leaves themselves they are very understanding and willing to accommodate the next generation of parents. In short - troublesome i…

”very beneficial for society as a whole in the long run”

Exactly. Low fertility rates is something that most rich countries struggle with, so to me it does seem like a good idea to invest in good childcare policies.

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#193

Post by tptacek »

fastbeef wrote: post #185
tptacek wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is paid for by businesses as well, in that every person who takes that leave potentially creates another headcount requirement to fill the gap. Something between the European standard expectation of a year's leave and the American top-end norm of 12/6 primary/secondary is probably the right answer here. But this is all a tangent. It is totally unreasonable to criticize Basecamp for policies that are on the high si…

Just to be clear, this isn't some experimental new thing that the Nordic countries are trying, this has been in place for well over 40 years - It. Works. Does it create a suboptimal situation at the workplace. Sure, sometimes. However, since the management probably have taken long parental leaves themselves they are very understanding and willing to accommodate the next generation of parents. In short - troublesome i…

Family leave policy isn't the only difference between the Nordic tech employment market and the US's.

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#194

Post by phamilton »

ezyjules wrote: post #181
dejv wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a father of 11 month old, I can't imagine how people can live with just 6 or even 16 weeks of maternity leave. Even after almost one year it feels like care is (at least) full time job, which would be quite hard to outsource. In my EU country you will get up to three years of paid maternity leave per child, so I guess I am just spoiled.

The difference in Europe is that the UK, Swedish or German government subsidies a great deal of that one year. In the US, the company pays for it all, and on top of it perhaps around $2,000 a month for a family health insurance policy for that employee so they can get the birth and emergency care paid for. Again, this is mostly free outside the US. You're hitting up on some societal grade rather than company policy i…

This isn't really true either. In California, for example, 6 weeks of partially paid leave for a secondary caregiver are provided by state disability insurance. It's a state by state issue.

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#195

Post by dginsburg »

mahyarm wrote: post #191
epsilongreedy wrote: post #127

Is it just me or are their "real" benefits pretty poor? Health Care: no vision, I assume no dental. 25% copay on the PPO is on the higher end too, no? 401K: Not matching up to max. Certainly not all companies do, but still. I guess it's rare for startups. Equity pool: (1) What happens on year 6? You don't vest any more equity? (2) This feels to me like it would not reward tenured employees as much. If you joined the…

What is the difference between matching and just giving you more salary, which you could put into your 401k? Does it enable you to put even more into your 401k tax free?

Yes, the 401k contribution limit doesn't include what the employer matches.

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#196

Post by praneshp »

mahyarm wrote: post #191
epsilongreedy wrote: post #127

Is it just me or are their "real" benefits pretty poor? Health Care: no vision, I assume no dental. 25% copay on the PPO is on the higher end too, no? 401K: Not matching up to max. Certainly not all companies do, but still. I guess it's rare for startups. Equity pool: (1) What happens on year 6? You don't vest any more equity? (2) This feels to me like it would not reward tenured employees as much. If you joined the…

What is the difference between matching and just giving you more salary, which you could put into your 401k? Does it enable you to put even more into your 401k tax free?

You're limited to 18k a year, which many people probably hit.S So extra salary would not help. That's one reason.

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#197

Post by dragonwriter »

tptacek wrote: post #141
dejv wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a father of 11 month old, I can't imagine how people can live with just 6 or even 16 weeks of maternity leave. Even after almost one year it feels like care is (at least) full time job, which would be quite hard to outsource. In my EU country you will get up to three years of paid maternity leave per child, so I guess I am just spoiled.

My sister is a public interest lawyer in Chicago who will get a few short weeks of leave --- not 6 --- and then be expected back in court advocating for her clients. It is really difficult for me to connect with fathers who claim that 6 weeks of paternal leave is too onerous. As a parent to two teenagers, both of whom were born in the early years of startups, I feel your pain --- having children is hard . But if we'r…

> But if we're going to lose our collective shit about this, can we start by getting mothers in blue-collar jobs 6 weeks of paid leave before we start worrying about six-figure fathers needing more than 6 weeks off?

Some of us don't live in barbarous backwaters like Illinois, but instead in places that, if not actually civilized like the rest of the developed world, are actually aware of and occasionally making efforts toward civilization (e.g., California) and already have gotten most working mothers up to four months of pregnancy disability (typically, without complications, 4 weeks prior and 6 weeks after delivery for vaginal delivery, 8 weeks after for C-section, but longer is permitted with medical necessity) plus 12 weeks of bonding time, all job protected, with potentially all of the former paid as for other disability and up to six weeks of paid family leave that can be used for the latter.

So, can we keep talking, now?

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#198

Post by tptacek »

dragonwriter wrote: post #197
tptacek wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister is a public interest lawyer in Chicago who will get a few short weeks of leave --- not 6 --- and then be expected back in court advocating for her clients. It is really difficult for me to connect with fathers who claim that 6 weeks of paternal leave is too onerous. As a parent to two teenagers, both of whom were born in the early years of startups, I feel your pain --- having children is hard . But if we'r…

> But if we're going to lose our collective shit about this, can we start by getting mothers in blue-collar jobs 6 weeks of paid leave before we start worrying about six-figure fathers needing more than 6 weeks off? Some of us don't live in barbarous backwaters like Illinois, but instead in places that, if not actually civilized like the rest of the developed world, are actually aware of and occasionally making effor…

Which states have those policies?

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#199

Post by dragonwriter »

ezyjules wrote: post #184
tptacek wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no logic to that whatsoever. But since Basecamp doesn't make that distinction --- it has "primary" and "secondary" "caregiver" --- I don't think we need to argue this point.

It is illegal (discriminatory) to have any policy based on gender. As such, you cannot have a maternity or paternity policy. Thus primary - the parent of the two who will leave their role temporarily as the main caregiver whilst the other partner continues to work OR secondary - the other. Note though that a health insurance policy in the US will cover maybe 60% of 8 weeks of salary for the birth mother under a disab…

> It is illegal (discriminatory) to have any policy based on gender.

No, it's not. Obviously, it's discriminatory to have a policy that differentiates on any axis, but not all policies (whether public or employer) that differentiate based on gender (or sex, which may be more to the point here, if we define "mother" as "parent giving birth" and not "parent of the feminine gender"; the two often go together but are not equivalent) are illegal.

Re: Basecamp Employee Handbook

#200

Post by dragonwriter »

tptacek wrote: post #198
dragonwriter wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if we're going to lose our collective shit about this, can we start by getting mothers in blue-collar jobs 6 weeks of paid leave before we start worrying about six-figure fathers needing more than 6 weeks off? Some of us don't live in barbarous backwaters like Illinois, but instead in places that, if not actually civilized like the rest of the developed world, are actually aware of and occasionally making effor…

Which states have those policies?

I'm pretty sure identified the specific state that has the policies I described, though there are some other states with similar or better paid family leave provisions and/or longer allowances for job protected leave for either pregnancy disability specifically, or general disability that includes pregnancy.
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