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Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

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Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#191

Post by Sorreah »

loteck wrote: post #30
apsec112 wrote: post #3

In my job search, I've been surprised by how often you submit a resume online, and then you don't even get a rejection email. It's a true "black hole" in that you never hear back, not even with a "no thanks". I think it's disrespectful of candidates to ask them to spend time filling out an application, and then leave them hanging because you're (presumably) too lazy to read it.

I sympathize deeply with this sentiment. However, let's switch modes. Please suggest your solution for the problem of receiving 1,874 resumes for a job posting and, 42 days later, finding your likely candidate on the 244th candidate you reviewed.

Don't post your job application to places that will get you 2k applications for a single position. Attach an automatedly tested small task to be submitted with any application.

When you get a successful candidate automatically inform everyone else still in the running that the position has been filled.

What's the hard part?

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#192

Post by pharrlax »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #166
nougatine wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's asinine. Because of some internal policy, you guarantee to waste people's time. It's already an asymmetric process, but behaviour like this makes it even more lopsided and plain wasteful.

You've hit the nail on the head. I appreciate the situation with companies. The "black hole" exists because they can't possibly deal humanly with every inquiry. To me, the question is: Why is the situation so asymmetric? Why is job hunting such a "seller's market?" Why do companies get hundreds, or thousands, of applications for one open position? It's like everyone who does similar work is continually submitting the…

>Why is the situation so asymmetric? Why is job hunting such a "seller's market?

Well the company can only accept 1 person for the position, whereas you are most likely willing to accept a position at a number of different companies, so there's an inherent asymmetry there, no?

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#193

Post by wott »

prolly_a_moron wrote: post #185
mooreds wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! Meetups, conferences, and social events are all great places to meet someone who might know someone who needs you skills. Yes, the connection will be far weaker than any connection with a former colleague, but sometimes all you need is an inside connection to make your resume stand out just a bit more and to be that less of an unknown. Weak connections actually being you into vastly different networks.

We must live vastly different lives. Otherwise, why would anyone want to spend their spare social time in job hunt mode? Sometimes I want to foster relationships I already have, not eternally be working on new ones.

Seems like the folks here go to conferences not to learn something, but to be part of a network and get a job; they go to programming/hacking/toying events or clubs not because they are interested in that hobby but to be part of a network and get a job; they call people to have news about them not because they like them but because they may use them later as a tool to get a job; they take part in open source projects despite having no problem to solve and no will to solve a user problem, but in order to build a portfolio and get a job. I find it very sad: always a main motivation which is job and money; no genuine interest in what they take part, not a bit of altruism either.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#194

Post by bgribble »

I have actually had really good experiences as both a job seeker and a hiring manager with Hired. Their platform makes it easier to keep track of candidates and makes it less likely they will fall through the cracks.

My experience with hiring in the past is that startups that do it completely internally with no HR or recruiter support are likely to get overwhelmed and drop the ball. Recruiters drive the process along but they are motivated to put any ass in the seat and are not usually completely trustworthy from either the job seeker or the client side. A marketplace solution like Hired, Vettery, etc makes the process lot more transparent and has a rhythm that helps keep hiring managers on task.

Of course I'm a programmer and I'm in NYC and what works for me, here doesn't work for everybody, everywhere.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#195

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

enraged_camel wrote: post #96
arvinsim wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're screwed if you didn't invest in contacts early in your career even if you have the needed experience and skills? Having a good professional network is not something you can just "turn on" at will.

You would be surprised. With a few months of investment attending local meetups, you can meet a lot of people. If you take the extra step and, say, volunteer for speaking engagements, you can establish yourself as an authority in your area of expertise fairly quickly. You won't become a DHH overnight, but you'll still be miles ahead of those who still play the resume game.

The tech meetup scene seriously sucks in a lot of places, especially if your expertise/interest lies somewhere other than web design/development/DevOps.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#196

Post by paradite »

wott wrote: post #193
prolly_a_moron wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must live vastly different lives. Otherwise, why would anyone want to spend their spare social time in job hunt mode? Sometimes I want to foster relationships I already have, not eternally be working on new ones.

Seems like the folks here go to conferences not to learn something, but to be part of a network and get a job; they go to programming/hacking/toying events or clubs not because they are interested in that hobby but to be part of a network and get a job; they call people to have news about them not because they like them but because they may use them later as a tool to get a job; they take part in open source projects…

That's very cynical view of networking and I am very much offended by it.

I go to events and conferences because I am genuinely interested in them, I go there to listen to insightful presentations and talk to fellow programmers about interesting things, the motivation is never to "get a job later", that would be sick. The "networking effect" comes much later when you become close enough to naturally tap on them for job opportunities without feeling awkward or anything.

In other words, you don't go for conferences to find job opportunities, that's not the end, but the natural effect of knowing a lot of awesome people with the same interest as you.

Heck, I dare to go one step further to say that the purpose of a full-time job for me is just to meet more awesome programmers.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#197

Post by mooreds »

prolly_a_moron wrote: post #185
mooreds wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! Meetups, conferences, and social events are all great places to meet someone who might know someone who needs you skills. Yes, the connection will be far weaker than any connection with a former colleague, but sometimes all you need is an inside connection to make your resume stand out just a bit more and to be that less of an unknown. Weak connections actually being you into vastly different networks.

We must live vastly different lives. Otherwise, why would anyone want to spend their spare social time in job hunt mode? Sometimes I want to foster relationships I already have, not eternally be working on new ones.

I feel you. In the last decade I have had to dial my outside tech/networking way back due to other obligations.

You can pick a few meetups (or even just one) to focus on, or you can be on the lookout when you meet casual acquaintances (perhaps at other social events).

I wouldn't want to spend all my social time in work hunting mode, but a small regular investment can pay dividends (depending on how happy you are in your current position).

Another reason to do such activities is the opportunity to help others. I love when I am talking to others and find out about a position that isn't a fit for me, but may be great for someone else I know. Hooking up two acquaintances in a possibly mutual beneficial way is low energy (not too much work) and yet high impact (people remember who helped them get a job).

I discovered this can be as easy as clicking"like" on a LinkedIn in post: http://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/2180

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#198

Post by alain94040 »

rampage101 wrote: post #151

I don't get why referral is counted for so much especially when there are referral bonuses which would encourage employees to refer basically anybody they know. With all these companies having massive HR departments, I also don't understand how a resume goes unread or un-responded to when it takes maybe 10 minutes max to go through a resume thoroughly.

You grossly over-estimate the time it takes to read a resume. It's way below 30 seconds per resume. Probably on average closer to 10.

Try it for yourself: set up a timer, open your resume. How quickly can you figure out how much experience you have, do the job titles match more or less the position, any description that lists similar stacks to the one your group uses? 10 seconds.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#199

Post by curun1r »

erikb wrote: post #168
curun1r wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh...working in the opposite direction, I just took two companies that, off the top of my head, would seem like attractive places to work (Stripe and AirBnB). Both have listed openings of the somewhat rare position that I'd be looking for (Engineering Manager). I went to LinkedIn and searched for each company and looked at just recruiting profiles. I found 12 and 8 mutual contacts, respectively, that I could easily…

What do you understand as "Engineering Manager"? In software an engineer that upgraded to managing other engineers seems to be common practice.

Yes, it's common practice. It's how I originally became a manager. That's why it's somewhat rare to see job openings for those management positions. Most companies would rather promote from within than hire an someone from outside the company. Managers are often most effective when the people being managed believe they understand the work being done intimately and the easiest way to show that is to have done that work prior to becoming a manager.

But management is also a discipline apart from the work being done by the team. I made a ton of mistakes early in my time as a manager. I was also fortunate enough to work for a company that had a management training program that was hugely helpful. And I'm also fortunate to have a parent that teaches interpersonal dynamics in a business school, so I've had a lot of exposure to the theory behind the practice. I feel this has made me a lot better manager now than I was when I first started, despite the fact that my actual abilities to write code have suffered somewhat from lack of practice.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#200

Post by rhizome »

salesguy222 wrote: post #95
rhizome wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please suggest your solution... This is completely unfair. GP is not an HR professional by any indication. If your accountant says your website looks ugly, do you hire them as your designer?

Lmfao dude, these days, if you want most people to take you seriously, you need to criticize AND suggest alternatives. Anything else is just complaining. I don't need to know the minutia of a specific field before I can criticize and suggest alternatives. An accountant does not need to know node before offering comments on site usability, feel, performance. Nobody is hiring them to execute a redesign. They're asking…

So you have to be able to fix something before saying it sucks? You must be busy in the "Counterfeit items on Amazon" threads.
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