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Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

latimes.com

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Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#191

Post by dragonwriter »

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #184
dragonwriter wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, later in the article it says that, too. Which still is inconsistent with your claim; both the median and the usual average, the mean (per capita), are reported, it is not the case that just the median is used and reported as the "average".

Strange, perhaps you should tell that to the Census Bureau. PER CAPITA INCOME[4] Table 1: 2007 Estimate is $27,834, but they use the Median not the Mean as you assert... https://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/p60-236.pdf Edit Neither of you understand there is a difference between what the Census Bureau Considers the Mean and Median Income. Failing to understand that Median Income is not simply half on this side and ha…

> Neither of you understand there is a difference between what the Census Bureau Considers the Mean and Median Income.

No, actuslly, I do recognize that there is a difference between the mean and the median, that the Census publishes both, and that the former is the usual definition of "average" in unqualified English use.

> Failing to understand that Median Income is not simply half on this side and half on the other is your problem

No, even your source says that that is exactly what the median is. The mean, OTOH, is something else entirely.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#192

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

stale2002 wrote: post #53
amyjess wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If money was the sole determiner of what kind of job you'd choose to work, you'd be in finance, enterprise sales, or medicine, not webdev. There's no amount you could pay me to be a farmer, just like there's no amount you could pay be to become a doctor, a salesman, a lawyer, etc. I'm in tech because I like what I do.

That's not true at all. Medicine requires many years of your life in training, and going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Also, it is extremely competitive and I'd probably fail out of it. High risk for no guaranteed payout. Finance also doesn't actually pay that much. I had friends working at banks right out of college making Being a lawyer at a not top tier institute also sucks in terms of pay/requires deb…

> Tech really is quite high paying and good for people at all levels. I know people who did bootcamps and are now making 100K with a couple months of training.

Having survived the original dot com bust, I feel compelled to point out that there's no guarantee that the happy circumstances you're describing will continue indefinitely. Too many people attempting to ride the same wave will eventually result in unfortunate economic consequences.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#193

Post by throwaway862 »

For California farmers, it’s creating a desperate shortage of help.

I am now offering $15k for a new BMW, up from $10k, but there are still no takers. Clearly, there is a "desperate shortage" of BMWs...

Does the LA Times seriously expect us to believe that immigrant labor is immune to the Law of Supply and Demand--that no wage or no combination of wage and benefits is enticing enough to persuade American citizens to work in agriculture, or that if the price is so high as to be unsustainable for most farms, that automation wouldn't come to be viewed as an increasingly viable, cost-effective alternative if cheap, illegal labor were denied to them?

The LA Times should be ashamed of itself for publishing this propaganda.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#194

Post by faster »

kashkhan wrote: post #50
greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

it's better to let teenagers invest in future job skills than past job skills. Sure grape picking would build character, resourcefulness, obedience to bosses and teamwork, but it's got no future. Same thing with fast food jobs.

Non-cognitive skills like those are very important. I've seen a few papers lately that show that it's more valuable to long-term earning to learn non-cognitive skills than cognitive skills in a child's early years.

http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/16164/1/16164.pdf

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#195

Post by 67726e »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #159
hkmurakami wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any insight into what does In n' Out does differently? They seem to continue to attract that demographic.

Elsewhere in the States, Panera, Starbucks, Chick fil-A, Tropical Smoothie, and likely some others tend to have staff that fits the same visual archetype. Some of it is likely due to "organic" stratification and segregation of society, which is a less-nice way of saying people keep to their own circles. Some of it may be deliberate discrimination due to factors such as attractiveness and access to resources, often ob…

I would love to know what exactly it is Chic-fil-a does. Right now I less than a block from one, but it's all chipper teenagers and, yes, mostly white. This is despite the fact that the neighborhood I live in is majority black, and lower income. I have neighbors who work at McDonalds, but not Chic-fil-a. I can't imagine Chic-fil-a outright discriminates, but every one I visit has polite, probably affluent, teens.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#196

Post by [deleted] »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #159
hkmurakami wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any insight into what does In n' Out does differently? They seem to continue to attract that demographic.

Elsewhere in the States, Panera, Starbucks, Chick fil-A, Tropical Smoothie, and likely some others tend to have staff that fits the same visual archetype. Some of it is likely due to "organic" stratification and segregation of society, which is a less-nice way of saying people keep to their own circles. Some of it may be deliberate discrimination due to factors such as attractiveness and access to resources, often ob…

[deleted]

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#197

Post by masonic »

hkmurakami wrote: post #68
greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

Any insight into what does In n' Out does differently? They seem to continue to attract that demographic.

One key factor is that they require English fluency, since every employee is in a position to be customer-facing.

The progression with most other fast food chains in CA was that once you start hiring employees who don't speak English, then you have to have all shift managers be Spanish-speaking, leaving no upward path for line employees who aren't bilingual. Before long, most of the kitchen crew is non-English-speaking.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#198

Post by masonic »

rogerbinns wrote: post #93
hkmurakami wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any insight into what does In n' Out does differently? They seem to continue to attract that demographic.

They don't have franchises like the other chains. That is also why their rollout seems slow. This means the boss is the company, not a franchisee who will have their own way of doing things. They then make a reasonable effort of benefits for their employees: http://www.in-n-out.com/employment/restaurant.aspx

  They don't have franchises like the other chains.
I don't think that's a factor. Both corporate-owned stores and franchisees use the same employee demographics, generally. Sometimes you'll find a franchisee who is an immigrant from outside the Americas and find a lot of family members and their friends making up the crew. (For example, there's a local Taco Bell that has more South-Asian employees than not.)

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#199

Post by masonic »

67726e wrote: post #195
temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elsewhere in the States, Panera, Starbucks, Chick fil-A, Tropical Smoothie, and likely some others tend to have staff that fits the same visual archetype. Some of it is likely due to "organic" stratification and segregation of society, which is a less-nice way of saying people keep to their own circles. Some of it may be deliberate discrimination due to factors such as attractiveness and access to resources, often ob…

I would love to know what exactly it is Chic-fil-a does. Right now I less than a block from one, but it's all chipper teenagers and, yes, mostly white. This is despite the fact that the neighborhood I live in is majority black, and lower income. I have neighbors who work at McDonalds, but not Chic-fil-a. I can't imagine Chic-fil-a outright discriminates, but every one I visit has polite, probably affluent, teens.

In my experience, there are many black employees at fast food places in Oakland and southeastern S.F. (Bayview).

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#200

Post by masonic »

kashkhan wrote: post #50
greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

it's better to let teenagers invest in future job skills than past job skills. Sure grape picking would build character, resourcefulness, obedience to bosses and teamwork, but it's got no future. Same thing with fast food jobs.

Working in fast food means responsibility and planning: time clock, rules, clean uniform, proper shoes, standards for behavior, etc. Some millenials aren't held to such basic standards elsewhere in life yet.
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