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Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

pi-hole.net

191–200 of 320 posts

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#191

This is just a DNS filter. Why is it a big deal? DNS filters sort of work, but they're not new or magic. They trigger some ad-blocking detectors when the ads don't load.

If you need something more powerful you can have a similar setup with Privoxy. I have a script[1] that regularly downloads the adblock lists and converts them into filter/action files for Privoxy plus some custom rules. It's faster than a browser plugin and every device on the LAN can use it. It has a somewhat antiquated web UI and writing the rules it's not particularly user-friendly but it's working really well for me.

[1]: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/privoxy#Ad_Blocking_wit...

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#192

I definitely hate ads like anyone, but it should be acknowledged that ads serve a purpose too, of creating an economy for free content and giving people an avenue to get some income in exchange for their efforts, and possibly be able to devote their full attention to a free project and not have to support themselves with other income. Ads give creators some incentive to create stuff - although the income generally is…

I've maintained for a long time that the ad networks themselves are the problem, not advertising as a whole. There is a place for video advertising (around content that is also video), there is a place for audio advertising (on the radio, around podcasts, on music services), and there is even a place for animated, interactive advertisements, on sites that are expected to dance and move anyway, like online games.

The trouble is, most third party networks are so laser focused on getting people to "interact" with their advertising that they've skewed the game in favor of distracting users from the content they arrived to consume. They're so focused on targeted advertising that they regularly invade users privacy, utilize questionable data collection practices, and break down security barriers when browsers try to shut down their violations of user trust. It's no wonder ad blockers are on the rise, because the existing ad networks are all untrustworthy.

There will always be a place for advertising when it's done properly. Watch an NFL broadcast and observe the product placement, the logos and sponsors everywhere. It's organic, integrated into the very fiber of the broadcast in a way that couldn't be blocked with even the most sophisticated blocking software. And it's also usually quite tasteful, there to promote the product, but not distracting enough to detract from the game the viewers came to the channel to watch.

This kind of advertising, organic product placement and sponsorships, where the content creator and the advertiser have a real partnership and coordinate their efforts, this is the kind of advertising I want to see more of. For all the drama they tend to draw, I commend the Gawker sites (Gizmodo is particularly good about this) for their Sponsored posts and their frequent "Deal of the Day" posts, which are first-party advertising that my blocker regularly fails to block. And you know what? Some of the deals are genuinely interesting to me, because Gizmodo clearly knows their audience, and selects advertising partners that make sense on their blogs. More of that please!

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#193
post #167

Default settings use remote, shared DNS caches run by an advertising company. Regardless, this is a step in the right direction. DNS is highly effective for this filtering out advertising. Personally I just run my own authoritative nameserver(s) with all the IP addresses I need. No recursive cache. When I browse to websites where I have never been and may not return, I am never using graphical browser that loads "res…

For graphical browsers uMatrix is a good way to do this sort of thing. For every website you visit, you can tell it what resources from which domains to load and it'll block everything else.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#194
post #178
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really the same. One of the main issues with curl pipes is that the server (or MITM) can detect that the request goes into a pipe. This allows an attacker to display one (safe) source when you view it in your browser on your workstation, or wget it, and serve a different (nefarious) source when you curl/pipe it. So, a more complete analogy would be: a bottle that gives you a safe chemical compound when you extrac…

How can you detect if the output is curl/piped?

Like so: https://www.idontplaydarts.com/2016/04/detecting-curl-pipe-b...

To combat this sort of thing, @jbenet made hashpipe: https://jbenet.github.io/hashpipe

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#195
post #178
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really the same. One of the main issues with curl pipes is that the server (or MITM) can detect that the request goes into a pipe. This allows an attacker to display one (safe) source when you view it in your browser on your workstation, or wget it, and serve a different (nefarious) source when you curl/pipe it. So, a more complete analogy would be: a bottle that gives you a safe chemical compound when you extrac…

How can you detect if the output is curl/piped?

https://www.idontplaydarts.com/2016/04/detecting-curl-pipe-b...

Summary: Fill your script with an invisible payload that fills any buffers, and put something time consuming (say `sleep 5`) early in your script in order to detect that the script is being executed directly rather than just stored to disk. If the client halts before having read all data, it is likely a `curl | bash` scenario. If it just keeps reading, it's a regular browser just downloading.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#196
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google can save ads about as effectively as AOL can save dialup. Probably their plan is to just milk advertising until the last Windows 95 computer dies too.

Unfortunately, ads pay for a lot of web content just like they pay for most TV content. The 5% (of which pretty much all of HN is a part of) can probably afford to pay for the cost of creating that content. The 95%, consisting of not just hourly wagers but also salaried folks generally can't afford to. The trade off is ad supported content. So it's very unlikely to die off.

Something like 2/3 of millennials are blocking ads which means Google has already encountered just about everyone willing to consume their advertising. Ad-supported websites would be unprecedented if anyone really cared about them not having to find a new way to make money. Nothing truck drivers want is going to make driving trucks a career forever either.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#197
post #95
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think pi-hole will at least partially block such things -- it intercepts at the network level. I guess you could have the app break itself if the ads won't load, but you can (mostly) do that in a browser. I guess, for network level ad blockers, I'm not seeing obvious advantages to a program written as an app vs a program written to run in a browser.

As others have mentioned, you could just serve ads and content from domains which you wouldn't want to block, like www.google.com. And if an app receives its content encrypted (eg. SSL) you can't do a lot of filtering at the network level apart from domain names.

We'll just move to neural networks to detect and remove ads.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#198

I definitely hate ads like anyone, but it should be acknowledged that ads serve a purpose too, of creating an economy for free content and giving people an avenue to get some income in exchange for their efforts, and possibly be able to devote their full attention to a free project and not have to support themselves with other income. Ads give creators some incentive to create stuff - although the income generally is…

I agreed with you right up to the point where they decided it was acceptable to periodically jank the text I'm trying to read out from under my eyes.

I switched right from "well, ads support the internet so" to "kill this s### with whatever fire I can enable my browser with".

Web advertisers, we gave you a chance and the rich benefit of the doubt. You completely and totally earned every bit of this thats coming down on you now.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#199
post #122

Cool project! Great idea and nice UI. I have tried recently and it works fine with HTTP. The problem is with ads served via HTTPS and since today most of the pages are using HTTPS protocol pi-hole is kinda useless. For reference on this topic https://discourse.pi-hole.net/t/websites-hanging-timing-out-...

DNS happens before HTTP and HTTPS. If you block at the DNS level it will work for both HTTP and HTTPS URLs. That page you linked seems to confirm this, and that Pi-Hole works just fine blocking HTTPS.

That's true, but instead of empty ad being server (as in case HTTP), HTTPS request timeouts and increases loading time for many pages, because the page waits until all JS loads.

Another problem is that some browsers will retry failed request several times (Chromium) effectively prolonging the time before final error is confirmed.

More about HTTP retry can be found here https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-nottingham-httpbis-retry-00....

To sum it up. Using pi-hole had a negative impact on my browsing experience because HTTPS pages were more less buggy/slow.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#200

I definitely hate ads like anyone, but it should be acknowledged that ads serve a purpose too, of creating an economy for free content and giving people an avenue to get some income in exchange for their efforts, and possibly be able to devote their full attention to a free project and not have to support themselves with other income. Ads give creators some incentive to create stuff - although the income generally is…

I've maintained for a long time that the ad networks themselves are the problem, not advertising as a whole. There is a place for video advertising (around content that is also video), there is a place for audio advertising (on the radio, around podcasts, on music services), and there is even a place for animated, interactive advertisements, on sites that are expected to dance and move anyway, like online games. The…

There is a much bigger barrier to entry when it comes to monetizing via product placement and sponsorships. For smaller entities, developing dedicated advertising partnerships is just not on the table.

So if the the ad networks themselves truly are the problem (and as a result adblocking is ever on the rise), it sounds like there is an opportunity for a better, more "organic" solution accessible to the long tail of smaller sites looking for monetization options. Sounds like a tricky nut to crack, as I'm sure anyone who works in the industry would tell me.

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