Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 202 posts

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#191

Post by lispm »

Yetanfou wrote: post #184
lispm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what you're saying is that a direct claim from a high-ranking Israeli politician about a conversation he had, with no apparent benefit to lying about its contents, is not enough? Exactly. Random people can claim anything. There is no credible source and Schulz never said anything like that on record. You might want to listen to what Schulz actually says. > Haaretz, a liberal Israeli newspaper, is a "right wing g…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haaretz "... It is known for its left-wing and liberal stances on domestic and foreign issues. ..." Yes, Wikipedia is not an original source. https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-political-leanings-of-the... "... Among the newspapers Haaretz is definitely left leaning, with some columnists in the radical left. ..." Claiming that Haaretz is 'Repeated only by right-wing groups' is rather unb…

The particular quote is only circulating in right-wing groups.

Stay on topic.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#192

Post by dang »

Exofunctor wrote: post #58

> What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this. I honestly can't imagine how you could avoid exposure to any of the incredible amount of discontent in Europe right now. European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions, to the detriment of peaceful, secular, educated, and liberal Europeans wh…

A couple things that are both true: (1) Yes, there is political discontent; (2) No, you can't conduct flamewars here.

Nothing like this wretched, tedious subthread ("Angela Merkel has chosen to ethnically cleanse the German people") belongs here. We ban accounts that take HN into circles of internet hell, so please don't post political or ideological rants in the first place. HN comments should become more focused, civil, and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. If ever there were a case for a negative feedback loop it's this one.

All: If you can't discuss something in the spirit of this site—intellectual curiosity—then please don't post until you can.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13786624 and marked it off-topic.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#193

Post by dang »

WildUtah wrote: post #143
Exofunctor wrote: post #58

> What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this. I honestly can't imagine how you could avoid exposure to any of the incredible amount of discontent in Europe right now. European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions, to the detriment of peaceful, secular, educated, and liberal Europeans wh…

"For me, the new Germany exists only in order to ensure the existence of the State of Israel and the Jewish people." Funny then how Angela Merkel has chosen to ethnically cleanse the German people and replace them with a population whose top geopolitical priority is and has always been the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jews. The new 'refugee' dominated Germany is going to be an interesting place.

We've banned this account for abusing HN. I hate to ban anyone who's been here for years, but ideological and political battle is not what this site is for—indeed it poisons everything we care about. When we ask someone to stop and instead they do it worse, obviously we have to ban them.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#194

Post by dang »

nonglobal wrote: post #161
genericpseudo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one claimed it was! It's hardball negotiation. In this, the US meets the EU's demands or it doesn't get what it wants.

Either the US meets Brussels demands, or the EU cuts off its nose in spite and throws gasoline on the anti-EU fire for member states that depend heavily on tourism from the US. Brilliant strategy, that.

We've banned this account. You can't use HN for political and ideological battle. That's an abuse of this site which destroys what we care about here. Please stop creating accounts to break HN's guidelines with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#195

Post by dang »

bandrami wrote: post #5

They do this every few sessions and the commission never acts on it.

Thanks. Between that and the non-binding nature of the vote (now added to the title above), this is just high-end trolling. I wish we could mature enough as a community not to act like decapitated chickens in response to these.

Another classic article pattern is when someone 'introduces a bill' (most proposed bills, of course, go nowhere).

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#196

Post by Yetanfou »

lispm wrote: post #190
Yetanfou wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of reaction is why the discussion has been polarised so much, in Europe and elsewhere. Instead of sticking on simple labels and well-worn claims of 'hate speech' you'd do better to try to refute those statements with data. Let's try, shall we? The first statement was that 'European leaders have been importing millions'. Your simply deny this without any evidence to the contrary. The facts seem to point to t…

Germany did not 'import' them. Germany gave refugess a shelter, protected by the German constitution. Germany did not import millions of illiterate people from Afghanistan. Attributes 'such as'. 'politician' is an attribute such as. Tactics like Goebbels who called them Volksverräter and Volksfeinde. These are the usual tactics by the right wing propaganda: useless 'semantics' when the intend is clear: a smear campai…

Germany 'imported' migrants by making it well-known around the world that they'd accept anyone who claimed to be from Syria. This message was heard by traffickers who passed it on to their victims by claiming they'd be welcomed with open arms by Merkel. Those victims - or the family of the victims who sent one of their sons to serve as 'anchor' - paid large sums to the traffickers to smuggle them into the Schengen zone, from where they could make their way into Germany or Sweden.

Who claimed that Germany 'imported millions of illiterate people from Afghanistan'? I do not see that claim anywhere but in your last message.

Bringing up Goebbels in a politically tainted discussion is counterproductive unless there is a clear cause to do so. In this case there is no such cause.

Making claims of something being 'the usual tactics by the right wing propaganda' is even less helpful as all it does is polarise the discussion. Leave out the labels, the epithets, stop comparing with Nazi tactics. If you don't think you can 'win' without resorting to such means there is a good chance you don't have anything useful to add to the discussion.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#197

Post by areyousure »

kyriakos wrote: post #185
areyousure wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, and Romania are not in the Schengen Area. It is not clear to me whether by "one of the five other countries" you mean that any of them or whether you mean Poland .

You can travel to non schengen countries with a schengen visa. At least to countries which have active applications to become schengen members e.g. Cyprus. It's just that Cyprus can't issue a schengen visa. Partly one of the reasons Cyprus doesn't get as many refugees as Greece even though being geographically much closer to Syria and Turkey.

This appears to be correct, although note that one must have a double or multiple entry visa.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#198

Post by lispm »

Yetanfou wrote: post #196
lispm wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany did not 'import' them. Germany gave refugess a shelter, protected by the German constitution. Germany did not import millions of illiterate people from Afghanistan. Attributes 'such as'. 'politician' is an attribute such as. Tactics like Goebbels who called them Volksverräter and Volksfeinde. These are the usual tactics by the right wing propaganda: useless 'semantics' when the intend is clear: a smear campai…

Germany 'imported' migrants by making it well-known around the world that they'd accept anyone who claimed to be from Syria. This message was heard by traffickers who passed it on to their victims by claiming they'd be welcomed with open arms by Merkel. Those victims - or the family of the victims who sent one of their sons to serve as 'anchor' - paid large sums to the traffickers to smuggle them into the Schengen zo…

Germany did not make anything like that 'well-known' around the world.

Refugees have been fleeing for some time from Syria, especially when the war escalated. People from North Africa increasingly come to Europe, especially because the events of the last decade: war, collapse of order, economic problems, ...

Claiming that all these people come to Germany, because we imported or invite them is just a lie. The wave of refugees coming to Germany from Syria was especially, because no one else helped them, just when the war escalated. Some EU countries don't get enough help dealing with refugees and others simply refuse to provide help. In the past German politics wasn't very helpful either and the problem slowly escalated over time. But one of the root causes are failed politics of regime change in middle east and north africa.

1, 2 or 3 million refugees in Germany is not the biggest problem. The much bigger problem is ending the war in Syria, which is to a large part caused or fueled by countries like the US, Russia, Iran, the Saudis, ... If the war ends, many refugees could return home... which would take years.

You brought up the illiteracy rate of Afghanistan, not me.

Don't whine when you spread right-wing propaganda that you sound like Goebbels. That's all from Nazi propaganda: Überfremdung durch Massen von Untermenschen, Politiker als Volksverräter, ...

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#199

Post by muninn_ »

Findeton wrote: post #187
muninn_ wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? Like what's wrong with being Brazilian or Chilean??

Brazilians and Chileans are Americans too. Even though they are from another continent.

Well they are South Americans then. In my experience (my Brazilian friends at least) they prefer being called Brazilian. Nobody except those with an axe to grind or more time than is good for them care that people from the United States of America are called Americans. I really wish people would just grow up and stop caring about stupid little things like that.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#200

Post by muninn_ »

WildUtah wrote: post #189
Findeton wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it has something to do with the US/CIA fucking up those countries.

It started with the Mexican-American war of 1846, so that is a viable theory (though the CIA was not yet involved). That's the war Mexicans still teach in every Mexican school with a big famous map showing that California and Texas are Mexican territory unjustly stolen by the USA.

Stolen isn't the right word. Anyway they should just get over it.
Post reply on HN