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Sexism at Uber from Female Management

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Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#191

Post by sudosteph »

huffmsa wrote: post #162
ceras wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't stop me from joining a company that's clearly better than the rest. But engineers have a lot of comparably good options in hub cities, so it's reasonable to be picky about small stuff - we can afford to be. A formal dress code does have real downsides: it (1) costs money, (2) wastes closet space (it's a premium in NYC!), and (3) makes biking to work or otherwise living a pre-/post-work active life more of…

The mistake you're making is that "work clothing" needs to be separate from your "after work clothing". NYC there is no excuse for not finding good and reasonably priced tailors. You might get dirty looks from those who look worse than you, but suits do in fact make the man.

Here in Seattle absolutely everyone would give you dirty looks. I don't trust anyone in a suit, and I don't think they make a man look anything other than sleazy.

Different cultures, different perceptions. Tech culture as a whole does not share the NYC mentality that suits are a reasonable norm. Dress codes just don't jive with a need for authenticity. Give me the weird guy wearing a kilt over the slick sales guy in a suit any day.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#192

Post by itsdrewmiller »

armandososa wrote: post #184
m3rc wrote: post #135

Uh, you can still be sexist and also be a jerk... are you asking if people can only be one? And FFS, just look at women in their goddamn eyes, like a normal person. Not being sexist is like the easiest thing in the world, just don't be weird.

Do you honestly think that's what I'm asking or just want to be confrontational? (I re-read my question and I don't believe that's what I'm saying, but I'm not a native english speaker). To clear my question: If I'm being really mean to you how can you confidently say that it is because I have bias against your gender or your race and not because a) I'm mean to everybody or b) I don't like you in particular (which is…

The general gist of the responses is it doesn't matter that much - if someone is being terrible, outside of a specific legal context that should be enough to determine how you react to their behavior. If you are asking about that specific legal context, it would be good to clarify that. In either case though it will probably sound like you are trying to discount the complaints of the author.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#193

Post by nojvek »

Marconium wrote: post #189

Let's face it, some clothes that women wear are distracting for men, including a tank top. It is an animal instinct to look at beautiful women and be attracted to them. It is like putting a chocolate infront of you and saying you cannot eat it. Of course, you will resist but it will make focusing harder for you.

Do men rape every women they find attractive on the street?

We are human because we can resist the urge. Yes, women will be attractive to men and vice versa, its biological, but a tank top and I guess nowadays yoga pants are quite normal.

Not getting promoted because you wore tank top a couple of times is like saying to a guy "you wear shorts and your calves are sexy, so we won't promote you". The fact that a female manager says that means, sexism is rooted deep in "Uber"

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#194

Post by sudosteph »

huffmsa wrote: post #69
hellcow wrote: post #12

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that the manager is doing wrong. We can debate whether the manager is effective at her job, but it seems clear to me this is not an example of sexism. The only citation I can find relevant to the claim of sexism is that she was asked not to wear a tank-top to work. It may very well be that a tank-top is inappropriate attire at Uber's workplace. At IBM and many o…

Easy fix: Mandatory dress codes. Men in suit, with tie from the time you enter the office until the time you leave. Women in suits, pants or skirts. Or go whole hog and require everyone to wear grey coveralls when in office. Institutions with dress codes generally have less BS distractions because the distractions simply can't exist.

- Times I've ever been distracted by a coworkers outfit: 0

- Times I've ever been distracted by conversations/music/movement/laughter in my open office: 9000+

Yep. Outfits are the only cause of BS distractions that can exist in offices...

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#195

Post by vkou »

jquast wrote: post #186
vkou wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that the manager is doing wrong. We can debate whether the manager is effective at her job, but it seems clear to me this is not an example of sexism. As a man, I have never had a single manager comment on the clothes I've chosen to wear at work... Or had my attire compared to a guy playing ping-pong in a speedo.

I witnessed male worker fired on the spot for wearing jeans to work instead of slacks (general motors). I was also once given a warning when my belt and shoes did not match (black and brown). I went to a business college, and we were taught to dress professionally, I think we spent a full day on the topic in "business communications" course. We most definitely discussed that cleavage should not be shown and dress len…

GM is not a .

Does Uber have a dress code, besides tech-casual? From the sounds of it, GM did.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#196

Post by Marconium »

raarts wrote: post #190
Marconium wrote: post #189

Let's face it, some clothes that women wear are distracting for men, including a tank top. It is an animal instinct to look at beautiful women and be attracted to them. It is like putting a chocolate infront of you and saying you cannot eat it. Of course, you will resist but it will make focusing harder for you.

A tank top doesn't make a woman beautiful. It makes some women more attractive yes. If you are too distracted by it, it's you who are to blame for lack of self control. Find ways around that, it's called character building you'll find it useful in life in general.

Well, good for you if you are perfect and there is nothing that distracts you but willpower is a limited resource and self-control consumes that resource. Try it yourself and put something that attracts you in front of you and start working. It will lower your productivity.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#197

Post by SolarNet »

tomp wrote: post #188
SolarNet wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The manager wasn't telling male workers to wear long sleeved shirts, so that's the most obvious one. It was also obviously the last straw. Often in stories like these the last straw seems pretty stupid compared to a larger problem. People have a breaking point but it's often a small thing that puts them over it, the straw that broke the camels back. Although the story doesn't spell out the gender of everyone on the t…

> The manager wasn't telling male workers to wear long sleeved shirts, so that's the most obvious one You don't know that. In general if dress codes are sexist, they're sexist against men. Women have a much broader repertoire of appropriate clothing (skirt or pants, blouse or shirt, tie or no tie) than men (pants, shirt and tie, suit optional).

> You don't know that.

No we don't. But we do know the other people in the office made jokes about the manager telling the author to cover up. I think they might have shared a "Don't feel bad, she told me to cover up too" story if they had been told that.

> In general if dress codes are sexist, they're sexist against men.

Most offices I have worked at do not require men to wear suits and ties. Also, if you wanted to wear a skirt management wouldn't be able to get upset at you unless your contract specifically said you would follow the company dress code without a lawsuit. Also, I've seen men wear kilts to an office before, and that's also a protected class.

I don't know what you are talking about here.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#198

Post by nanodano »

stevienyx wrote: post #85
thewhitetulip wrote: post #25

While reading the account, it seems the Manager is from India perhaps? Edit: I am an Indian and it is a big deal in India to wear "revealing clothes", albeit I have no idea what a tank top is neither do I care Just FYI do you don't assume that I am a sexist and downvote me.

She is white, and no I don't assume you are a sexist, I assume you are a racist.

Pointing out different values in different cultures is not racist...

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#199

Post by nanodano »

juandazapata wrote: post #40
thewhitetulip wrote: post #25

While reading the account, it seems the Manager is from India perhaps? Edit: I am an Indian and it is a big deal in India to wear "revealing clothes", albeit I have no idea what a tank top is neither do I care Just FYI do you don't assume that I am a sexist and downvote me.

Which racist thought made you reach that conclusion?

Understanding and pointing out different values in different cultures is not racist...

What I find insulting is people who throw out and call someone racist for anything.

"Did you know in India they have different values than in America?" "Holy shit, that's so racist!"

Give me a fucking break.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#200

Post by raarts »

Marconium wrote: post #196
raarts wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tank top doesn't make a woman beautiful. It makes some women more attractive yes. If you are too distracted by it, it's you who are to blame for lack of self control. Find ways around that, it's called character building you'll find it useful in life in general.

Well, good for you if you are perfect and there is nothing that distracts you but willpower is a limited resource and self-control consumes that resource. Try it yourself and put something that attracts you in front of you and start working. It will lower your productivity.

Self control can be practiced. Do not blame her for waring a tank top. It's better to try to grow as a person and not remove everything that challenges your personality from your surroundings.

Also she has freedom too. A tank top is not out of the ordinary.

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