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How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

theintercept.com

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Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#191

Post by jdminhbg »

acoard wrote: post #157
jdminhbg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not at all the defining characteristic of modern cloud computing; if it were, you would call VR systems (laptop or phone does computation on behalf of video system on your face) "cloud computing." What's different about cloud computing is the persistent connection and availability, combined with the ownership model and the resulting implied scalability.

>persistent connection and availability I can't really comment on the ownership model, but surely a persistent connection and availability is an incremental change.

If always-on-from-everywhere is incremental, then what isn't incremental? Are smart phones an incremental change from desktops?

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#192

Post by rvdavis »

rorykoehler wrote: post #188
cromwellian wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he complains about government funding and distortion in markets, but became a billionaire with Palantir thanks to government funding. It's hypocritical for "libertarians" to rail against government spending, crony capitalism, and the government picking winners, and then turn around and benefit from exactly that.

It's not exactly surprising as right-libertarian is a paradoxical concept. It only works if you're loaded. No actual poor person could possibly ever be considered at liberty seeing as money dictates access.

I would disagree on this point, being a "right"-libertarian from a low-income family, but I will happily concede that this differs from person to person, situation to situation. Libertarianism promotes and empowers the individual over the collective, and most libertarians derive their values from this ideological position. I'm not sure if you are familiar with any libertarians in your personal life, but many are deeply caring, rational individuals who have a consistent framework of ideals and strongly held beliefs against the use or threat of violence toward others. I would encourage you to engage with us more before you dismiss us, and I think you'd be pleasantly surprised :)

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#194

Post by nickpsecurity »

jdminhbg wrote: post #191
acoard wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>persistent connection and availability I can't really comment on the ownership model, but surely a persistent connection and availability is an incremental change.

If always-on-from-everywhere is incremental, then what isn't incremental? Are smart phones an incremental change from desktops?

If we give you that, they have one breakthrough over mainframes. That makes them "mainframes that are always on from everywhere." Mainframe apps were already doing that with terminal, thin clients, web apps, and so on. It was part of modernization efforts to give workers or customers better access to data or business logic on mainframes by putting better interfaces in front of them. Situation is improved today with cloud stuff but core capability was there.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#195

Post by Nomentatus »

abandonliberty wrote: post #164
clydethefrog wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the people behind Y Combinator that condemn Trump because according to them he represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants[0], but at the same time have many financial ties with Thiel's practices. They have financial power to take a stand against this threat, but decide not do it. [0] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election

This is basic game theory. Organizations and society select for maximization of wealth/power - not ethics, morality, enlightenment, and/or aspirational value of your choice. The problem is simple: Maximize organizational wealth/power given the social, business, and political context. Anyone competing in this system who does not loses to those who do. The current response: Placate the users by agreeing with the issues…

Actually inequality has been shown to reduce a society's overall wealth and power by stifling growth. Banana Republics aren't renowned for accomplishing much.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#196

Post by Nomentatus »

pyoung wrote: post #129
api wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that is incremental and evolutionary. Here's a good example of what I mean. Fundamental invention: radio. Before radio communication via invisible waves over long distances was impossible. After radio it wasn't. This is a fundamental qualitative change in capability. Innovation and evolution: morse code keys to 4G/LTE and WiFi. This represents a quantitative change in capability (faster/better/cheaper), but qu…

I think your analysis suffers from recency bias. Almost all inventions were incremental improvements on existing ideas and experiments, very few were huge Eureka! moments. Morse code was invented around 1840 and radio communication in around 1900. It took 60 years to go from wired to wireless. The first supercomputer was built in the 1960's and 50 years later we were walking around with internet connected computers i…

I like this comment, it may be true; it certainly should make us careful about making a final judgement. It's true of literature and art - what the next century decides was great about the last isn't obvious at the time, at all. Or not usually. If the next century lives largely in cyberspace, then we're in the golden age and No Man's Sky (a game I quite like, actually) and VR are epochal advances for all humanity. But overall, I'm a pessimist, Jane Jacobs book "Dark Age Ahead" (which is mostly about trends obvious back then) left a big impression on me.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#197

Post by Nomentatus »

Peter Thiel is at a disadvantage here, unless of course zip1234 is Peter Thiel. He can't answer here or elsewhere about the apparent contradiction between Palantir's use and his libertarianism. His corporate responsibilities forbid it, since his comments might not be entirely positive about Palantir.

I can think of a couple of arguments. One, that he set out to make hammers and thought they'd be used more responsibly but now can't exit without doing more harm than good to others who's loyalty he asked for. Or perhaps he thinks that libertarian regimes are only likely to arise from the collapse of totalitarian governance; or that abuse is inevitable from non-ideal-libertarian governments so it's the only game in town right now.

I'd love to know his answer, but as I've said, I don't think he's in a position to disclose it.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#198

Post by [deleted] »

rvdavis wrote: post #190
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were clearly trying to paint "the other side" as unreasonable zealots, who pretend that upstanding, hardworking immigrants are under threat, when really it's only the classic illegal immigrant stereotype that your side have a problem with. (This stereotype is also BS but that's a different story...) Unfortunately for you, someone right at the very top of the Republican party that is in charge right now said somet…

Hardly. He stated that there is a difference between illegal and legal immigration, and that right now, somehow, that distinction is being lost in the hyperbole. One side of the argument is being unfairly portrayed as a horde of white supremacists/nationalists/racists/etc, because they make this distinction. At the same time, amnesty for illegal immigrants is being pushed by the other side as a humanitarian concern.…

[deleted]

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#199

Post by foldr »

humanrebar wrote: post #189
foldr wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still speaking in code. Do you think gay marriage should be legal or not? If not, then at the very least you are anti-me, as I'm in a gay marriage. (And as far as I can tell my marriage hasn't led to any increase in unplanned pregnancies, if that's what's worrying you.)

The fact that you are both defensive and not interested in a new viewpoint makes me decline to give you a response to that question. I've already said I'm not anti-anybody. Let's not be so eager to outgroup our allies.

A "new" viewpoint? You think I haven't encountered people who are opposed to gay marriage before?

If you oppose gay marriage, then you are anti-me, and anti everyone else who's in a gay marriage. You can't have your cake and eat it. Your views have real consequences for other people.

Also, don't patronize me by claiming to be my "ally". If you think my marriage is wrong then you are no ally of mine.

But hey, thanks for hinting that gay marriage is wrong without having the courage to actually say it. As you refuse to offer any explanation for your views, I'm going to assume that, as usual, there isn't one. Maybe you should hold off commenting on the issue until you have thought it through a bit more.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#200

Post by ionised »

dgut wrote: post #166

So, a former Gawker Media writer decides to point out the US goverment is using Thiel's data analysis and visualization company and you all (nearly all of you) jump on the hate-train. You people are starting to act like a quasi-religious group, and you've found your devil! Palentir itself doesn't collect data. Palentir is used for a variety of purposes, including medical and scientific research. The article contains…

What do thos benefits have to do with how ethical the company is?

That's just misdirecting attention.

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